HELP! Controlling High Phosphates...

WeedyDragon

New member
Hey Everyone,
First a little background on my minimalist tank. I have a 6 month old, 29 gal reef with live rock/sand, CPR BakPak skimmer, LEDs, and two 425 Koralias. For the most part, everything has been going smoothly and stable. I was doing a 15-20% water change every 2 weeks and your typical cleaning which seemed to work great. But for the last month and a half, Ive had a rise in phosphates and trouble getting them down. Its not too bad yet, but I'm starting to see a rise in algae growth.

Ive been testing my water params regularly, and all are in the norm accept for the high phosphates. As of today:
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 0ppm
pH: 8.0
Ca: 400 ppm
Mg: 1320ppm
KH: 8.0dKH

Since the rise in phosphates, I've been doing weekly 20% water changes using saltwater and RO/DI purchased from my local fish store. With each water change, I've been cleaning the sand, live rock, and walls of tank. I've reduced my lighting period and have been taking it easy on the fish food. Nothing is really bringing them down enough.

The employee at the fish store suggested using GFO media in a sock. I do not have a HOB filter, nor the room for one, so this means I would have to fabricate something to stick in my skimmer. Is this the way to go? Using GFO media?

Any recommendations are greatly appreciated. :smile (2):
 

poidog

Active member
This is about phosphates, but you didn't include your phosphate ppm.... ?

Also how are you testing?
 

WeedyDragon

New member
Ooops! Sorry. :loco:

Last test had my phosphates at .25ppm.

Ive been testing at home with my API Saltwater Master Kit (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH) and the Red Sea Reef Foundation kit (Ca, Mg, KH). I do not own a Phosphate test kit, so Ive been having my fish store do that test as well as double checking my other params. They use Red Sea Kits for everything.
 

poidog

Active member
I would borrow someone with a Hanna checker. All other for phosphates are unreliable. I was testing 0 in both my tanks, but when I got a hold of a Hanna they were .17 and .30. The .17 is a successful SPS reef, so it wasn't causing a negative impact, but the .30 reef I had been having problems with SPS. My course of outcome is to start running GFO. I have never done so in my reefing career, so it's something new for me. I'll have to keep an eye on my clams because it's a 50/50 chance GFO and clams do not get along.

If they're testing .25 on a drip or strip test you really could be way higher.

The problem with GFO in a sock is that it binds up and water cannot flow thorugh it if the GFO is left to rest on each other. Best way is in a reactor so you can get a tumble, or to pack it in a reactor with carbon - so the carbon separates the GFO.
 

WeedyDragon

New member
Yeah, I looked at reactors when he suggested using the GFO. But again I run into the same problem. The hole on the top of my tank is not wide enough for additional equipment. Ive heard horror stories of people using socks in their skimmers and the sock plugging up the return resulting in a overflow. So I was thinking of using like 6" of PVC pipe, covering it with the sock, then add the media to that, and attach it vertically in the return chamber. Figured giving it some structure might help with water flowing through sock.. and preventing it plugging the outflow????
 

poidog

Active member
nope, it'll all just sink together and water will flow through the top of the pip. Cut or drill out (or enlarge existing hole) to accommodate a 1/2 tube for a reactor. You can pick one up at BRS inexpensive - I think $50 with the pump.
 

yogoshio

New member
Honestly, find the source of the phosphates. Whether its not great water or overfeeding, high phosphates are 99% of the time a controllable issue without supplementation of GFO.

Easiest way is a fuge to hold some macro algae. If you really need a GFO reactor, you can make one from a gatorade bottle and some PVC pieces, then just have it pour back into the tank using some cut up milk crate or something while you find the source or a more permanent solution.
http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=77999&hl=reactor

Phosphates don't occur randomly, there's always a source, so unless they're being released by food or your rock is leaching some (although very rarely is it that high) or the water isn't the best quality (which is what my money is on), so I would find the source and fix it.
 

WeedyDragon

New member
The only thing I can think of causing high phosphates would be:
1. I have been using one pump of AZOX coral food to the tank weekly. -Going to eliminate this and see what happens.
2. I have used tools in the tank that have been washed in tap water (but let them dry before using). -Not sure if this affects anything.
3. The water I am purchasing.

Forgive my ignorance as I am only 6 months into the hobby, but:
1. How could you have 0 nitrates and .25 phosphates?
2. Could I put macro algae in one of the chambers of my CPR Bak Pak?

Would you both agree that using GFO in a reactor is the way you go?
 

Steve1986

Active member
In the past when I have had phosphate problems it has either been the kind of food, how much i was feeding or the filters on my R.O. have been dirty. I have never had the need for gfo
 

AC-WEB

Member
Forgive my ignorance as I am only 6 months into the hobby, but:
1. How could you have 0 nitrates and .25 phosphates?
2. Could I put macro algae in one of the chambers of my CPR Bak Pak?

Would you both agree that using GFO in a reactor is the way you go?
1. Faulty test kit. Also could be that algea is growing and feeding more off the nitrates than phosphates. It looks like 0 nitrates but that is because the algea is eating it.

I currently have a sump with a refugium chamber with macro algae, as well as running a biopellet reactor with good results. Not to mention a cone skimmer and some carbon in a bag.
I also have a heavy bioload and sps.
 

yogoshio

New member
Nitrates and phosphates are unrelated chemically. Nitrites become nitrates, but phosphates are independent, and normally used in food preservatives or part of the water. I'm not too familiar with the CPR bakpak, but if I'm not mistaken some have floss in the chamber, so if you threw a light and some macro, it seems like it would be fine, but I'm not an expert so don't quote me on that.

Personally, I run GFO as a temporary fix because of an issue, not to just dull the pain of phosphates. Find the source and clean it up, and GFO won't be necessary. From that list I'd say the water is most likely the problem. You'll thank yourself in the long run to have an RODI unit yourself.
 

Lil BamBam

Premium member
IMO Buy the mixed SW or RODI water from your LFS and pay to have them tested. If results aren't good, request a refund :D

I did this with a LFS by my house using a TDS handheld tester to test the RO/DI water.. Lets just say algae free now and have my own unit to make water ;) Also I save on gas... LOL!!
 

WeedyDragon

New member
Personally, I run GFO as a temporary fix because of an issue, not to just dull the pain of phosphates. Find the source and clean it up, and GFO won't be necessary. From that list I'd say the water is most likely the problem. You'll thank yourself in the long run to have an RODI unit yourself.
IMO Buy the mixed SW or RODI water from your LFS and pay to have them tested. If results aren't good, request a refund :D

I did this with a LFS by my house using a TDS handheld tester to test the RO/DI water.. Lets just say algae free now and have my own unit to make water ;) Also I save on gas... LOL!!
LOL! Yeah, Ive been wanting to purchase one. Spending way too much weekly on salt and RODI water and hate relying on someone else. A little intimidated to ask a reputable Chicago LFS to check their water though. :unsure:
 

Lil BamBam

Premium member
LOL! Yeah, Ive been wanting to purchase one. Spending way too much weekly on salt and RODI water and hate relying on someone else. A little intimidated to ask a reputable Chicago LFS to check their water though. :unsure:
No shame here!!! If so, they should stand by there services and product IMO. Hey, they might not charge you just to show you.. I rather be safe and spend my $$ if they are good.
 

yogoshio

New member
I had something similar happen to a lfs by me. They sold me sick fish when I was VERY new in the hobby and it took a looong time and some comeuppance before I went back, but now things are smooth.
 

poidog

Active member
I thought the same thing, that phos was an issue that I could control... I guess I've been blind all these years, as I have delectable phos that is high IMO. My fresh salt water tests at .03 but the tanks are much higher. I run chaeto and skim aggressively. Looks like GFO is a must instead of a band aid for a "source problem."
 

yogoshio

New member
I thought the same thing, that phos was an issue that I could control... I guess I've been blind all these years, as I have delectable phos that is high IMO. My fresh salt water tests at .03 but the tanks are much higher. I run chaeto and skim aggressively. Looks like GFO is a must instead of a band aid for a "source problem."
That's so strange... I get phos spikes when I have other people feed my tank when I leave, but other than that, I never have an issue, and I feed Rod's and spectrum and spirulina brine. I know some people just have higher levels, but I've never not been able to find the source for mine and fix the problem.
 
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