I need a refresher course on back syphoning

[edsbeaker]

So, I'm in the planning stage of my tank setup, and have been away for three years and don't trust my memory. This is also the first time I haven't had a basement sump, and room is tight. Can someone please make sure this setup obeys the laws of physics regarding any problems with possible back siphoning, or anything else for that matter.

1. BRS drews peristaltic dosing pumps
The dosing pumps will be highest up pulling up the additives from reservoirs below them, and then dispensing them into the sump lower down from both the reservoirs and the dosing pumps. End of tube will not be submerged.

2. ATO- Osmolater pump will be at the bottom of the reservoir on floor. Outlet for water dispensing will be at the top of sump and not submerged. So outlet for water will be about 12" above the pump. What I can't remember is if the water level in the reservoir has to be lower then the dispensing point of the water, or just the actual pump. Also, do most of you use a check valve?

Sorry, I know this is basic reefer 101! as is the spelling of "Siphon" not "syphon"

 

[#theMatrix]

The brs doser will not back siphon due to the fact the head causes a pinch and will drip it regardless off. Kinda like when u place a straw in a cup of water and place your finger over the top of the straw then lifting the straw and tbe liquid stays in the straw even after youve removed the straw from the cup. In my system i have the doser above tbe sump..the sump is in the 1st floor. I had a line going downstairs into a 20gallon drum for kalk. So even with 12 ft of height the line stays primed.

As for ato the pump should be above both containers generally you want either both tbe sump and container lvl and the line not to be submerged so there is a siphon break

 

[edsbeaker]

The brs doser will not back siphon due to the fact the head causes a pinch and will drip it regardless off. Kinda like when u place a straw in a cup of water and place your finger over the top of the straw then lifting the straw and tbe liquid stays in the straw even after youve removed the straw from the cup. In my system i have the doser above tbe sump..the sump is in the 1st floor. I had a line going downstairs into a 20gallon drum for kalk. So even with 12 ft of height the line stays primed.

As for ato the pump should be above both containers generally you want either both tbe sump and container lvl and the line not to be submerged so there is a siphon break

Thanks about the peristaltic, but I may have not been clear with the ATO pump. To clarify... for the ATO I am not using a peristaltic, it is a submersible tunze osmolater, so it has to be submerged in the reservoir. So I was thinking as long as the pump is below where the end of the tube is dispensing the water, (I know that it can't be submerged) I thought I am OK. But I'm second guessing myself thinking that the water level of the reservoir itself can not be above the outlet. At my old house I had my ATO 4 feet above my sump in a crawl space, and I seem to remember that I had to raise the outlet to run down a 5' tall section of PVC so that the pump was actually below the level of the output. Hope you are following this.

 

[tinman]

Thanks about the peristaltic, but I may have not been clear with the ATO pump. To clarify... for the ATO I am not using a peristaltic, it is a submersible tunze osmolater, so it has to be submerged in the reservoir. So I was thinking as long as the pump is below where the end of the tube is dispensing the water, (I know that it can't be submerged) I thought I am OK. But I'm second guessing myself thinking that the water level of the reservoir itself can not be above the outlet. At my old house I had my ATO 4 feet above my sump in a crawl space, and I seem to remember that I had to raise the outlet to run down a 5' tall section of PVC so that the pump was actually below the level of the output. Hope you are following this.

the level of the ato container must be lower than the outlet of the tube ..

it really doesnt matter where you put the pump ( incase of a pump like aqualifter which is outside and higher than both water levels .... ) the water level in sump must always be below the outlet of the tube dispensing water

View attachment 20350

 

[edsbeaker]

the level of the ato container must be lower than the outlet of the tube ..

it really doesnt matter where you put the pump ( incase of a pump like aqualifter which is outside and higher than both water levels .... ) the water level in sump must always be below the outlet of the tube dispensing water

View attachment 20350

Got it, the picture helped a lot! Thanks!

 

[tinman]

curious .. why choose BRS drews peristaltic dosing pumps over their 1.1 ml dosers ?

 

[edsbeaker]

curious .. why choose BRS drews peristaltic dosing pumps over their 1.1 ml dosers ?

My reasoning is that the drews one has 4 metal rollers instead of the regular BRS doser which only has 2.
The difference is that there will always be two rollers pinching the tubing closed which means absolutely 0% of any back siphoning. The regular one, when it turns off, may not have any of the tube pinched closed, opening the possibility of back siphoning if say, for instance, your outlet falls into the tank/sump. I just felt it was a bit more peace of mind even if it was $30 more. There is a slight increase in the minimum dosing amount. 1.6 ml instead of 1.1, not very much, but since my apex will be able to turn on/off in seconds instead of minutes it won't be an issue.

 

[tinman]

My reasoning is that the drews one has 4 metal rollers instead of the regular BRS doser which only has 2.
The difference is that there will always be two rollers pinching the tubing closed which means absolutely 0% of any back siphoning. The regular one, when it turns off, may not have any of the tube pinched closed, opening the possibility of back siphoning if say, for instance, your outlet falls into the tank/sump. I just felt it was a bit more peace of mind even if it was $30 more. There is a slight increase in the minimum dosing amount. 1.6 ml instead of 1.1, not very much, but since my apex will be able to turn on/off in seconds instead of minutes it won't be an issue.

neither siphons back i dont have much idea about drews doser but the brs ones wont siphon back

 

[edsbeaker]

neither siphons back i dont have much idea about drews doser but the brs ones wont siphon back

They are both BRS dosers, but their video, maybe it's misleading, ? talks about the advantage of the 4 roller over the two roller types is because of the back siphoning possibility. Maybe I paid more for nothing? I should give them a call and find out. Now I just feel stupid!

 

[madjoe]

They are both BRS dosers, but their video, maybe it's misleading, ? talks about the advantage of the 4 roller over the two roller types is because of the back siphoning possibility. Maybe I paid more for nothing? I should give them a call and find out. Now I just feel stupid!

Ive been using 2 roller ones for many yrs and i got em used never back siphoned on me they r very reliable dosers

 

[edsbeaker]

I just got off the phone with Jason from BRS. He said the two roller USUALLY won't back siphon, but the 4 roller for sure won't. I probably would have been comfortable changing my order to the 2 roller pump but He did add that the Drew's pump is definitely more accurate, though, then the regular BRS, so I feel comfortable sticking with the BRS Drew's dose. My dosing is done 24 times a day, so if something is a little less accurate 24 times a day, it could really add up.

 

[edsbeaker]

Ive been using 2 roller ones for many yrs and i got em used never back siphoned on me they r very reliable dosers

Thanks Joe, it probably would have been fine, but I just learned from BRS that the pump is also better in the unit I bought, so I'm OK with the decision.

 

[tinman]

I just got off the phone with Jason from BRS. He said the two roller USUALLY won't back siphon, but the 4 roller for sure won't. I probably would have been comfortable changing my order to the 2 roller pump but He did add that the Drew's pump is definitely more accurate, though, then the regular BRS, so I feel comfortable sticking with the BRS Drew's dose. My dosing is done 24 times a day, so if something is a little less accurate 24 times a day, it could really add up.

$30 is nothing in this hobby all we need is inner peace haha

 

[madjoe]

Thanks Joe, it probably would have been fine, but I just learned from BRS that the pump is also better in the unit I bought, so I'm OK with the decision.

If they says its even better then u cant go wrong either way ive tooken mine apart just to see how it ticks and what can go bad and i can say is they r well built and will last for yrs to come brs dosers weither the old ones or new ones r more trustworthy built then any of those other dosers i even had a bubble magus and those arent cheap imo a pos and not accurate at all. Brs pumps r gear driven all the rest r frictin driven that wear out over time . So be confident u bought the right dosers no doubt

 

[edsbeaker]

If they says its even better then u cant go wrong either way ive tooken mine apart just to see how it ticks and what can go bad and i can say is they r well built and will last for yrs to come brs dosers weither the old ones or new ones r more trustworthy built then any of those other dosers i even had a bubble magus and those arent cheap imo a pos and not accurate at all. Brs pumps r gear driven all the rest r frictin driven that wear out over time . So be confident u bought the right dosers no doubt

I think so too. I've never had one fail me and I've used them in set ups for years. The other reason I like them is because they are single units, so if one needs to be replaced it's not like you have to pay for a new triple doser because 1 of the pumps stops working

 

[gonebad395]

I know for a ato I use the micro ato and haven't had a problem since I bought it just a thought to look in to