One would expect to find professionals at a store with this name...

aburdett85

New member
I realize many people have had nothing but great experiences with this store, but I wanted to share a negative experience in order to keep potential buyers informed.

I went to this store for the first time on Feb. 27th and picked up a blue tang and a bottle of Paraguard as per Mike's suggestion. I told him I was treating fish for what MIGHT be Ich, but I couldn't be 100% sure. He told me I would be better off with Paraguard until I knew for sure. I told him I had just dosed my QT with the first dose of Cupramine that morning. He told me Paraguard has copper in it, but since I had only done half the full dose of Cupramine, I would be ok to do a 50% WC and then add only half the dose of Paraguard and my copper levels wouldn't be too high. Well, I waited until the new blue tang was eating before placing it in my 55 gallon QT (3-4 days I think) with my juvie yellow tang and waited two more days for the blue tang to acclimate to the cupramine. On Mar. 5th, I checked my copper levels after the first dose of Cupramine and 50% WC. It was at (roughly) 0.2ppm, so I added the half dose of Paraguard as per Mike's instructions. One hour later, I went to check on the fish and they were both dead! I called Seachem to find out what could have happened, and they informed me that mixing Paraguard with Cupramine changes the copper in the Cupramine from Cu+2 to Cu+ which is 10x more lethal.

I sent a message to Aquapros via FB and got no response. The next day I called and the manager said Mike would never tell someone to do that, that they don't even do that in their store. He told me he would check with Mike though and get back to me. Two days later (today), I still hadn't received a call back, so I called and asked for Mike. He told me he would never tell someone to do that because it would kill the fish, then he told me they do that all the time (opposite what his manager told me), and that if I followed his instructions (which he JUST denied giving me), I should have been fine. I can't even keep track of how many times he and his manager contradicted themselves. I was pretty upset about them giving me such horrible advice, but I never had an attitude with them, I simply wanted to know what we could do to rectify the situation. Mike said they might be able to give me another blue tang at cost (not a good deal since I lost two tangs to his horrible advice), but then he asked the manager and he said no because the fish was healthy when it left the store.

All-in-all, I am very disappointed with this experience. When I first visited the store, I was pleasantly surprised and saw myself making bi-weekly visits, but now I am so upset with them, I just want others to be warned. They may seem like an honest, top-quality LFS, but underneath it all, they are just like the rest; you are nothing more than dollar signs, not worthy of their respect.


EDIT: Mike has reached out to me to rectify this situation and we have come to a mutual agreement. I chose to update this post rather than delete it because I feel people should know that Mike truly does care about his reputation and will do anything (in his power) to protect it.

I feel Mike and I have learned a valuable lesson and we are both better for it.

 
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As much as this situation sucks,
IMO, it is upon you to research from multiple sources (or may be even better you should have called seachem before you dosed) especially when dealing with powerful chemicals and sensitive fish

Any lfs's prime motive is to sell and do business, not helping us.
Mike is knowledgeable AFAIK and may be you misinterpreted what he told, or may be he did tell you to mix them and realized how lethal it is after you called back to complain and wants to save his a**

I'm not taking anyone's side in this case but again, your tank and research is your responsibility not lfs's or internet's
 
I do agree with you that research is key, but when a LFS tells you they do something all the time and tell you what to do with such confidence, the need for additional research dissipates greatly. He could have simply said "I'm not sure", but he reassured me everything would be fine.

I always ask questions if I am unsure of what I'm being told, and I remember asking him three times just to reiterate. I made sure I understood his instructions clearly before leaving the store.

As I said, I'm sure there have been countless satisfied customers, but that doesn't mean they should be 100% trusted. I am certain he realized his mistake after and lied to save his own a** for the simple fact that he couldn't make it through a ten minute conversation without contradicting himself several times.
 
sorry to hear about your fish. sounds like some miscommunication and lack of research. hopefully they make it right and gain your trust back. unfortunately most people learn the hard way in this hobby with trial and error.
 
im with tin on this one . no matter what a experienced reefer does or doesnt do its up to you to make final decision . it would be like setting up a qt for your fish and not your corals , imo why only go half way . again i do understand why you would be upset and i assure you someone would not give someone advice to cause harm . i wish u luck with later qt . also be sure tk have a fully cycled qt . thats what killed my first round of qt fish
 
im with tin on this one . no matter what a experienced reefer does or doesnt do its up to you to make final decision . it would be like setting up a qt for your fish and not your corals , imo why only go half way . again i do understand why you would be upset and i assure you someone would not give someone advice to cause harm . i wish u luck with later qt . also be sure tk have a fully cycled qt . thats what killed my first round of qt fish

+eleventeen

Wait you're suppose to qt coral?
 
Not to sound like a broken record, but proper research would have prevented the situation. LFS are not chemists, nor are they biologists. They are glorified hobbyists, limited to experience, perception and comprehension. Call me crazy, but I take any information with a grain of salt, and seek multiple resources before making any type of technical decision in regards to anything I do.

First page of a google search http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=4131
 
This is all great advice and, in hindsight, I wish I didn't trust Mike (or Aquapros in general). I realize they are not chemists, but we're not talking about a hypothetical as though I asked "what do you think would happen?". I was told "we do this all the time" until it ended tragically and I was then told "we would never say that".

The whole purpose of this post is to shed light on the fact that the Aquapros are not "pros" at all, and they certainly leave a bit to be desired in the professional courtesy department. I, for one, will be taking my business elsewhere after such a terrible experience.
 
Hi, sorry for your loss. what was said was finish the copper treatment( another week at that), and then do 50% water change, run carbon, remove carbon and paraguard for up to a week if fish are not breathing heavy. We never mentioned to run both together and never do and never have. We got contradictory statements saying you did another half dose of cupramine and half dose of paraguard when fish were transferred which we never recommend
 
No matter advice given, if you use any medication always use directions given by manufacturer. Seachem clearly states on Cupramine bottle, not to use it with any other medications.
Blaming anybody but yourself is just wrong. Always take any advice with a grain of salt and don't follow it blindly. Sorry for loss of your fish, but hopefully this costly lesson will teach you for the future.
 
I appreciate both you and them. When I first started I got a blue star leopard wrasse from them. As soon as I put it in the tank it dove into the sand never to come out. I talked to mike and I was given store credit. Later I found out this was an expert level fish. Mike knew I was new but sold it to me, but made it rite. Ironically if it didnt dive into the sand I would have killed it and been out. So I will say that they are a business but, they have the best customer service i have experienced. Everyone makes mistakes, and I dont think we will find to many marine biologist working the counter. No comment dave taught me to research everything and talk everyones opinion as that, hell I dont do water changes and look how that goes over. Thank you for the review as I like to hear the good with the bad, and sorry for your loss.
 
This is all great advice and, in hindsight, I wish I didn't trust Mike (or Aquapros in general). I realize they are not chemists, but we're not talking about a hypothetical as though I asked "what do you think would happen?". I was told "we do this all the time" until it ended tragically and I was then told "we would never say that".

The whole purpose of this post is to shed light on the fact that the Aquapros are not "pros" at all, and they certainly leave a bit to be desired in the professional courtesy department. I, for one, will be taking my business elsewhere after such a terrible experience.

This thread has gone on long enough and I fear it will turn bad soon. Your review of a local store is welcomed... but if you want to have further conversation with Aquapros, please take it to private message.
 
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Tips and advice for the newer people to the hobby,

Always listen to advice, but only use the advice after u research what was suggested.
Never buy a fish without reading up on it first. It will save u a ton of money in the long run.

Everyone has a phone now with internet. If ur interested in a fish at an LFS, do a quick google search or check with liveaquaria.com.
 
My $0.02....

I totally get the whole notion of researching everything 6-ways to Sunday, however, I feel there are MANY people employed by (and especially some owners) who are much more than glorified hobbyists. These folks do this for a living, it is their job, they learn from their own experiences as well as those of their customers...they speak with their product reps who also share knowledge. Now, it goes without saying that there are also people working in some of these stores who are not experts. I was in a store yesterday where a very helpful and eager young man was helping a lady pick out some acros. She admitted she doesn't have any experience and has never owned any acros. He admitted that he didn't know much much about acro's either but she started picking out a bunch of frags anyway even though he couldn't answer any of her questions. Now, had she had any sense, she could have talked to the owner who knows as much about acro's as anyone I've ever met.

Here's my point, there are some guys (mostly owners) at multiple stores who I would trust their advice blindly because I know they know what they're talking about. The key here is to find the right people to get advice from and if you don't knew them to be experts, then be cautious and make sure you back everything up with research.
 
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