pacmann117
New member
Tooth-
By an odd twist of fate, it just so happens I have done a ridiculous amount of research on Vitamin C for some of my biology courses during college. Here is what I found, you might like it... others may not.
1: It is true that cnidarians produce collagen, it is a vital connection b/w the septa and their ECM (extra cellular matrix). In a nutshell it binds the tissue to skeleton in stony corals, and tissue to spicules in soft corals.
2: One of the biological molecules that copper aggressively degrades (in any concentration above NSW levels) is collagen.
3: Vitamin-C will reduces Cu+2 to Cu+1 in aqueous environments.
These three points lead my to my major theory as to why some people see definite improvement in their tanks when using Vitamin-C: Whatever non-dangerous but stressful level of copper (however it got there) is removed from solution and the corals/fish seem happier.
Some of the history as to how VC got into this hobby involves copper. VC is a great detox for fish that have gone through copper treatment and are worse for wear. Copper is found in elevated, albeit low, levels in fish blood serum after copper treatment. This fish only trick was transferred to the reef tank, and I believe this is how the whole VC thing got started.
As to the long term benefits of Vitamin-C, here's what I've found.
4: As Randy mentions in his article, VC does make a decent source for carbon dosing.
5: The addition of VC to an aqueous environment will reduce the ROS (reactive oxygen species) found in the tissues of photosynthetic corals.
6: Cnidarians can all synthesize vitamin-C from glucose naturally.
Points 4-6 lead me to my conclusion about the long term benefits of VC dosing: I don't believe any concentration of VC would be valuable to a healthy coral growing in a natural reef. I do believe that long term VC dosing may be beneficial to tanks by helping to lower nutrient levels. I think it may help corals combat thermal stress by reducing ROS levels. I also think it may be useful in tanks where non-photosynthetic corals reside which cannot manufacture their own source of glucose (source of VC synthesis).
In a nutshell, I think VC dosing may only provide long term benefits for tanks which struggle with nutrient control, temperature stability, excessive lighting, malnutrition, and excessive concentrations of conservative metals... which is pretty much everybody's tank right? As to the whole "curing disease" type claims, I think it is irresponsible to attribute such benefits for VC directly. I find it obvious (my own opinion) that dosing VC when you are experiencing a bacterial disease that damages the surface of corals will reduce bacterial growth by limiting their available nutrients, as they are being taken up by bacteria in the water column that utilize VC as a carbon source.
It's late and my brain is tired, i'll post up some other thoughts/observations I have later. I hope this gives you some food for thought, I certainly like having you here around this forum... even if you are a bit sassy
citations you can find on any academic e-journal site like ASP or EBSCO host
1&2:Grant A, Trompf K, Morrow P, et al. Sub-cellular damage by copper in the cnidarian Zoanthus robustus. Comparative Biochemistry & Physiology Part C: Toxicology & Pharmacology [serial online]. September 2010;152(3):256-262.
5: Blackstone N, Bivins M, Cherry K, Fletcher R, Geddes G. Redox signaling in colonial hydroids: many pathways for peroxide. Journal of Experimental Biology [serial online]. January 15, 2005;208(2):383-390.
By an odd twist of fate, it just so happens I have done a ridiculous amount of research on Vitamin C for some of my biology courses during college. Here is what I found, you might like it... others may not.
1: It is true that cnidarians produce collagen, it is a vital connection b/w the septa and their ECM (extra cellular matrix). In a nutshell it binds the tissue to skeleton in stony corals, and tissue to spicules in soft corals.
2: One of the biological molecules that copper aggressively degrades (in any concentration above NSW levels) is collagen.
3: Vitamin-C will reduces Cu+2 to Cu+1 in aqueous environments.
These three points lead my to my major theory as to why some people see definite improvement in their tanks when using Vitamin-C: Whatever non-dangerous but stressful level of copper (however it got there) is removed from solution and the corals/fish seem happier.
Some of the history as to how VC got into this hobby involves copper. VC is a great detox for fish that have gone through copper treatment and are worse for wear. Copper is found in elevated, albeit low, levels in fish blood serum after copper treatment. This fish only trick was transferred to the reef tank, and I believe this is how the whole VC thing got started.
As to the long term benefits of Vitamin-C, here's what I've found.
4: As Randy mentions in his article, VC does make a decent source for carbon dosing.
5: The addition of VC to an aqueous environment will reduce the ROS (reactive oxygen species) found in the tissues of photosynthetic corals.
6: Cnidarians can all synthesize vitamin-C from glucose naturally.
Points 4-6 lead me to my conclusion about the long term benefits of VC dosing: I don't believe any concentration of VC would be valuable to a healthy coral growing in a natural reef. I do believe that long term VC dosing may be beneficial to tanks by helping to lower nutrient levels. I think it may help corals combat thermal stress by reducing ROS levels. I also think it may be useful in tanks where non-photosynthetic corals reside which cannot manufacture their own source of glucose (source of VC synthesis).
In a nutshell, I think VC dosing may only provide long term benefits for tanks which struggle with nutrient control, temperature stability, excessive lighting, malnutrition, and excessive concentrations of conservative metals... which is pretty much everybody's tank right? As to the whole "curing disease" type claims, I think it is irresponsible to attribute such benefits for VC directly. I find it obvious (my own opinion) that dosing VC when you are experiencing a bacterial disease that damages the surface of corals will reduce bacterial growth by limiting their available nutrients, as they are being taken up by bacteria in the water column that utilize VC as a carbon source.
It's late and my brain is tired, i'll post up some other thoughts/observations I have later. I hope this gives you some food for thought, I certainly like having you here around this forum... even if you are a bit sassy
citations you can find on any academic e-journal site like ASP or EBSCO host
1&2:Grant A, Trompf K, Morrow P, et al. Sub-cellular damage by copper in the cnidarian Zoanthus robustus. Comparative Biochemistry & Physiology Part C: Toxicology & Pharmacology [serial online]. September 2010;152(3):256-262.
5: Blackstone N, Bivins M, Cherry K, Fletcher R, Geddes G. Redox signaling in colonial hydroids: many pathways for peroxide. Journal of Experimental Biology [serial online]. January 15, 2005;208(2):383-390.
