Water Stability and Acceptable Variances

[Johnseye]

Utilizing a controller like the Apex makes monitoring and tracking water parameters easier. It allows me to view fluctuations day to day, not only through the probes but also through the logs. Since doing this over the past year I've attempted to nail down my parameters to exact settings.

Temp - 79
PH - 8.2
Alk - 8
Calcium - 420
Salinity - .026

I check phos and mag every month or so to make sure I'm ok and they've never been out of line.

In the winter my heaters keep the temp steady. I don't run a chiller so if I'm not running my A/C the temp can fluctuate from about 79 to 84. If it starts climbing above 81 I immediately turn on the A/C. Temp will also have an effect on salinity.

PH and Alk are the most fluctuating parameters. PH bounces between 8.1 and 8.5. Alk between 7.5 and 8.6. The daily fluctuations are minor, but over the course of a week or two they could hit top and bottom on those numbers depending. Depending on what is a big question. I purchased a DOS and am dialing in on my Alk and Calc supplements but still have fluctuations. The only thing I can think of is that I use kalk in my ATO and maybe a little higher concentration of kalk water pumps through at certain times. It is a peristaltic ATO pump so it's never a lot at once.

My calcium is fairly stable between 420-450 but even that fluctuates.

What has your experience been with dialing in these parameters and how stable have you been able to get them?

Here's an example of the fluctuations I see over a week. The red line is PH and the orange is ORP. You can see they are in synch with each other. There doesn't appear to be a synch with PH and salt, temp or time of day. Notice the waves where PH increases. What could be the cause of these fluctuations? Please ignore the spike where I did a water change and stupidly left the ATO on which pumped kalk in. Luckily my livestock is forgiving of quick spikes like that.

I wonder if those swings in PH are tied into when kalk is coming in through the ATO. The ATO is through a perestaltic pump and very slow throughout the day, but the water has to reach a certain level to trigger the pump and doesn't stop until the level is back to standard.

View attachment 11883

 

[skyon888]

Is your ATO triggered through the Apex? If so you can track the outlet and compare that to your pH spikes, if they match up you'll know that's what is causing your spikes. You have to enable the "Log" feature for that outlet, it's a relatively new feature on the Apex and is useful in situations like this.

 

[skyon888]

Here's an example of mine where I compare my pH probe with my dosing pump outlet, which is simply a Tom's Aqualifter pump dosing Kalk out of a 5 gallon bucket every hour at night for a minute.
You can see that the pH spikes are right in line with when the pump turns on.

View attachment 11890

 

[Johnseye]

Here's an example of mine where I compare my pH probe with my dosing pump outlet, which is simply a Tom's Aqualifter pump dosing Kalk out of a 5 gallon bucket every hour at night for a minute.
You can see that the pH spikes are right in line with when the pump turns on.

My pump is not plugged into my Apex, but you helped confirm what I'm thinking. Thanks!

 

[Sawdonkey]

I don't concern myself with pH and literally never test it. The only thing I really worry about is Alk, which I test about twice per week. I just try to keep it between 120-135 ppm. I only dose kalk though my topoff, so my only means of correction (unless I add two part of something to fix a problem) is to mix up my Kalk concentration weaker or stronger. I have a 25 gallon ATO tank, so I only get one shot per week to adjust. Before I mix my Kalk solution, I test Alk and adjust. I have a pretty good idea of what solution strength it takes to keep alk stable, so I don't' fluctuate too much. This method isn't perfect, and you have to be aware of evaporation rate changes, but it's good enough for me and I don't have to think about it too much.

I test cal, mag, and Po4 occasionally. I test No3 once every couple of months just to make sure my biopellets are doing their job. Lately, my mag has dropped to about 1200, and I'm not sure why. I never dosed it before and it was always in the high 1300's. I've been dumping Kent Tech M in, but with my size tank, it takes about a half bottle to get the mag to rise 18 ppm. I gotta find a new solution.

 

[Johnseye]

I test cal, mag, and Po4 occasionally. I test No3 once every couple of months just to make sure my biopellets are doing their job. Lately, my mag has dropped to about 1200, and I'm not sure why. I never dosed it before and it was always in the high 1300's. I've been dumping Kent Tech M in, but with my size tank, it takes about a half bottle to get the mag to rise 18 ppm. I gotta find a new solution.

What kind of salt do you use? I switched to Red Sea Pro a while back and mag never changes. Calc and Alk fluctuate but I've been dialing in since I bought a DOS to supplement my kalk ATO.

 

[Sawdonkey]

What kind of salt do you use? I switched to Red Sea Pro a while back and mag never changes. Calc and Alk fluctuate but I've been dialing in since I bought a DOS to supplement my kalk ATO.

I use Reef Crystals mostly because of price and the volume I use. I never had issues with mag until recently. I never dosed it and it never dropped. My alk has been a little sporatic recently just because or evaporation rate changes and the fact that I've taken some vacations and been on top of it.

 

[Johnseye]

I use Reef Crystals mostly because of price and the volume I use. I never had issues with mag until recently. I never dosed it and it never dropped. My alk has been a little sporatic recently just because or evaporation rate changes and the fact that I've taken some vacations and been on top of it.

I started with Reef Crystals then switched to Red Sea, then to Red Sea Pro. I've always had a problem with not enough Alk. It seems like my corals suck it out of the water faster than anything. Even after adding kalk to my ATO my alk was still in the high 6's low 7's. Only now by dosing with sodium bicarbonate do I get it up in the 8's. Interestingly once I got it up there by calcium started dropping. I wonder if when the corals start getting enough alk they start growing more and taking in more calcium.

 

[jrpark22000]

pH and ORP can be pretty hard to keep stable over the long term. Especially in winter when our home are closed up, or for long summer heat waves. The increase of co2 will drop pH. pH and ORP ave an inverse relationship. Even when using a co2 scrubber I get a 100 ORP swing on a yeraly average and 7.84 to 8.27 pH yearly pH swing. I test alk daily and keep it steady between 6-8 dkh.

 

[Johnseye]

pH and ORP can be pretty hard to keep stable over the long term. Especially in winter when our home are closed up, or for long summer heat waves. The increase of co2 will drop pH. pH and ORP ave an inverse relationship. Even when using a co2 scrubber I get a 100 ORP swing on a yeraly average and 7.84 to 8.27 pH yearly pH swing. I test alk daily and keep it steady between 6-8 dkh.

Sorry that's my question. Is 6-8 steady? Shouldn't it be consistent? Or should I say, can it be consistent?

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[jrpark22000]

Until there is a breakthrough (if ever) and an ALK probe is created, being more stable requires almost constant tweaking. My tank uses alk slightly differently week to week. I set the dosers to supply what is needed on the lightest use weeks and manually add on those days when it's low. My typical range is dkh 6.5-7.5 but when I'm traveling it can go the extra distance.