Automatic Water Change For under $150

imranh

imranh

New member
Thanks to BRS and Joey. Love the idea here and if I had the space, I'd be on board with this.

Any thoughts? How would you tweak it?

I'd add to sump and control through apex. If you're already running a automatic water change system, would love to hear more about it.

[video=youtube_share;XtekO7RRRcA]http://youtu.be/XtekO7RRRcA[/video]
 
It's complete bullshit, First of all, that is fine and dandy for fresh water, but not salt. For one, the slow drip method doesn't remove 100% old water, but will also remove new, granted a unknown amount, maybe a lot or a little. Secondly, you need to add the cost of the salt, and you wouldn't be using water straight from your tub to refill, so again you need to get the RO/DI which also has an associated cost. And there is more but I feel like I shot enough holes in it to make it not worth it already.
 
I picked up some frags from a reefer once and he had a set up on a apex that automatically drained so much water and filled back up once a week he didnt have to even be home thought was cool but can see how things can go bad
 
I do AWC, but it's not cheap or easy as it takes considerable forethought. Without an apex or other controller with good quality pumps and safety switches (on AWC reservoir for example) you are at risk a catastrophic failure in the future. Its much easier to do a manual WC than suffer the failure IMO. Things to think about; the extra ALK addition, balancing the in and out changed water, losing prime in your AWC lines, low water level in AWC container, where to add/remove AWC to be effective, ATO triggered during AWC, and likely a few more.
 
I agree with Gary, to a point :)

I'm continually reducing the effort (and increasing the consistency) of my water changes...so I'll do them and do them well.

Started by plumbing a large sump in the basement, where my RODI and slop sink are located. The sump is large enough to do 15% system water changes simply by draining the first chamber of the sump. Win #1! No more carrying buckets up and down stairs!

I also got an Apex to control both display and sump functions. So, I setup one of the Feed Cycles "buttons" specifically for water changes, it turns off ATO, reactors, skimmer, heater, and return pump...in that order...and when cancelled turns them back on in reverse order with discrete delays between each based on observed time needed to stabilize. Win #2! One button consistent results...no more overflowing my skimmer, false ATO fills, and/or forgetting to turn something back on (hello heater).

To this point I'm still mixing and measuring salt water manually. Make sure the new is same salinity and within a couple of degrees in temp. Then pumping from sump into a same size empty bucket to match up volume of the prepared water....then dumping the old down the drain.

Next step will be to program pumping out a specific volume and then pumping the same volume of fresh salt water in. Debating how far to go with programming this step, as it could get expensive. Adding salinity and temp probes to validate the parameters of the fresh salt water is close enough to the active system before executing and sending error message if faulting out. Not to mention getting reliable and accurate volumes is likely best done with a 2 head peristaltic pump. So. I'm still thinking about lower cost options (that don't include unreliable mechanical floats).
 
As for the video, everyone nailed it with the flaws. Ill stick to my manual water changes. I only change 10 gal a month on my 40.
 
ultimatemj said:
I agree with Gary, to a point :)
Click to expand...

Actually, you seem to agree with me 100%. You can't do it based on the video and certainly not for under 150. My favorite part of that entire video was that he totally missed the part about salt water.
 
I would like to chime in for the lesser experienced reefers. It give "IDEAS". But, as it's shown, it wouldn't work for most SW hobbyists. Maybe adding it to a complex controller like a Reef Angel, Apex, or Reekeeper would work. But that's another box of worms. Just like everthing else in this hobby there are no absolutes. Either it works for you or it just doesn't.
 
Gary said:
It's complete bullshit, First of all, that is fine and dandy for fresh water, but not salt. For one, the slow drip method doesn't remove 100% old water, but will also remove new, granted a unknown amount, maybe a lot or a little. Secondly, you need to add the cost of the salt, and you wouldn't be using water straight from your tub to refill, so again you need to get the RO/DI which also has an associated cost. And there is more but I feel like I shot enough holes in it to make it not worth it already.
Click to expand...

I think it is safe to assume that anyone with a saltwater tank looking to implement this would already have an RO/DI filter and salt to do manual water changes. This system would just allow them to automate the draining and filling. It doesn't automate the process of filtering the water and mixing the salt in.
 
Jason R said:
I think it is safe to assume that anyone with a saltwater tank looking to implement this would already have an RO/DI filter and salt to do manual water changes. This system would just allow them to automate the draining and filling. It doesn't automate the process of filtering the water and mixing the salt in.
Click to expand...

Have you not watched the video?

It's also NOT safe to assume that, there are a lot of people who do not use RO/DI at all and there are also a lot of people who run out to buy their RO/DI. You know what they say about assumptions.
 
ultimatemj said:
I agree with Gary, to a point :)

I'm continually reducing the effort (and increasing the consistency) of my water changes...so I'll do them and do them well.

Started by plumbing a large sump in the basement, where my RODI and slop sink are located. The sump is large enough to do 15% system water changes simply by draining the first chamber of the sump. Win #1! No more carrying buckets up and down stairs!
Click to expand...

I had my first tank set up this way with the tank on the first floor in the dining room and the sump in the basement. While it made water changes easy the water in the air ended up rusting out almost everything metal in the basement. I also had a time where the PVC pipe broke and caused a huge flood. I won't be doing that again.
 
Gary said:
Have you not watched the video?

It's also NOT safe to assume that, there are a lot of people who do not use RO/DI at all and there are also a lot of people who run out to buy their RO/DI. You know what they say about assumptions.
Click to expand...

Good point. I watched the video but through the eyes of someone who has ALWAYS used RO/DI water, and always mixed their own saltwater, from day one with this hobby. I need to remember that there are people who don't come into this hobby without researching the hell out of it before buying a thing.
 
Does every step have to be automated to be considered automatic? I watched this video and I started thinking about a couple things I would change but I dont know if they would work.

Lets say you wanted to do a 10 gallon water change and you have a controller, Couldn't you make/buy 10 gallons of water and place it on one side of the tank then take another 10 gallon bucket empty on the other side of a tank with a float valve. Program something in your controller for say a feed button to say

when pressed start pump 1 (pump one will be in sump/tank and draining into the empty bucket)
When bucket 1 gets full turn off pump one and turn on pump 2 (pump 2 would be placed in bucket 2 with the new water)
when float valve says full in sump turn off pump 2

I'm sure this might cost more then $150 (especially if you consider the cost of the controller) but it seems like it would eliminate your concerns about not removing only old water.

As for the salt and rodi water. The challenge was to come up with a system to do auto water changes for less then $150 not to do the water change for less then that. Its the system itself that needed to be less than $150

Gary said:
It's complete bullshit, First of all, that is fine and dandy for fresh water, but not salt. For one, the slow drip method doesn't remove 100% old water, but will also remove new, granted a unknown amount, maybe a lot or a little. Secondly, you need to add the cost of the salt, and you wouldn't be using water straight from your tub to refill, so again you need to get the RO/DI which also has an associated cost. And there is more but I feel like I shot enough holes in it to make it not worth it already.
Click to expand...
 
steveo9043 said:
Does every step have to be automated to be considered automatic? I watched this video and I started thinking about a couple things I would change but I dont know if they would work.

Lets say you wanted to do a 10 gallon water change and you have a controller, Couldn't you make/buy 10 gallons of water and place it on one side of the tank then take another 10 gallon bucket empty on the other side of a tank with a float valve. Program something in your controller for say a feed button to say

when pressed start pump 1 (pump one will be in sump/tank and draining into the empty bucket)
When bucket 1 gets full turn off pump one and turn on pump 2 (pump 2 would be placed in bucket 2 with the new water)
when float valve says full in sump turn off pump 2

I'm sure this might cost more then $150 (especially if you consider the cost of the controller) but it seems like it would eliminate your concerns about not removing only old water.

As for the salt and rodi water. The challenge was to come up with a system to do auto water changes for less then $150 not to do the water change for less then that. Its the system itself that needed to be less than $150
Click to expand...


Like you mention, it can't be done for under $150. That was the challenge, and it's not being done. I have no doubt that someone could automate a water change, I've seen topics where it's been done, but no where near the cost of 150, let alone below it. To me, if you call it an automatic, I except it to be an automatic, would a automatic transmission be automatic if you had to let off the gas and push the shiftier up or down for each gear? I might not have a clutch, but it still wouldn't be automatic.

I personally wouldn't really call it a water change if it's under a certain % of water changed. I'd be interested in knowing, if you took two 5gallon buckets and have a 50g tank, how much old water is being changed.
 
Gary said:
Like you mention, it can't be done for under $150. That was the challenge, and it's not being done. I have no doubt that someone could automate a water change, I've seen topics where it's been done, but no where near the cost of 150, let alone below it. To me, if you call it an automatic, I except it to be an automatic, would a automatic transmission be automatic if you had to let off the gas and push the shiftier up or down for each gear? I might not have a clutch, but it still wouldn't be automatic.

I personally wouldn't really call it a water change if it's under a certain % of water changed. I'd be interested in knowing, if you took two 5gallon buckets and have a 50g tank, how much old water is being changed.
Click to expand...

I know what your saying but at the same time making the water isn't the actual "water change" does an automatic transmission move from parked to drive by itself? (since we are going with automatic transmission examples)

I'm going to look into pricing out something I think could work and post it to get opinions.
 
steveo9043 said:
I know what your saying but at the same time making the water isn't the actual "water change" does an automatic transmission move from parked to drive by itself? (since we are going with automatic transmission examples)

I'm going to look into pricing out something I think could work and post it to get opinions.
Click to expand...

I'm fine with the process of hitting "Feed A" but the entire premise of my argument, and the main point is simple. $150 or less. Without watching the video again, IIRC you still have to start the siphon right, or turn a pump on to get it going, it would stop when it's out of water fine.

Without a budget, it's much more plausible to get a system rigged with defines a true water change, instead of slowing adding water and taking it out, I'm still curious on how much new water was also taken out with his method.

I wish you luck in your endeavor.
 
under $200 (with having a controller, water/salt/dosing not included)

2x ATO
2x bucket

ATO 1 - drain from sump to bucket 1
ATO 2 - drain from bucket 2 to sump

Controller program
when feed button 3 is pushed start program

turn on power to ATO 1 (ATO 1 will sense the empty bucket and start pumping water from sump into bucket)
once bucket is full turn off power to ATO 1 and turn on power to ATO 2
ATO 2 senses water level low in sump and pumps premade water from bucket 2 into sump
once sump reads full turn off power to ATO 2
End program

cost of materials to automate water change ($170 could probably get it cheaper from going to another site and this is counting on you having a controller and assuming you can trigger the change by the float valve)

This would require you to make or buy your water and have it in its appropriate place. if you need more then a 5 gallon water change you would just have to buy larger buckets.

Sorry its a slow day at work lol
 
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