Help with Torch Coral

[goatous]

I bought this purple with neon tip torch coral from AquaPro’s Jun 25th along with the purple tip with neon green mouth frogspawn and both opened very nicely at first but the torch has declined and has not been doing very well. The tank is relatively new and I started cycling the dry rock back in Jan and started slowly adding livestock at the end of May.
I initially had the torch in a spot that I think was too bright or too much flow and moved them both down lower in the tank a week ago. The frogspawn seems to still be fine but the torch not so much.
I’m looking for advice as to what could be wrong.
Water Chemistry: Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 10, pH 8.0, Alk 2.75 mgE/L, Salinity 1.025, 78°F
The tank is a 40B with a 20 gallon refugium, 50# of Pukani live rock, with a 150 Gyre and MP40 for circulation (set very low) and a DC return pump running ~600 gallon an hour. Lighting is a Maxspect Razor 180Watt LED a time program which maxes out at 23% white and 28% blue for 6 hours and ramps back down. I’m slowly trying to ramp up the lighting.

 

[troublemaker]

I don't see a Mag test result and I can usually find LPS to show the first signs of my Magnesium being off. I know you said you had them low, but you also have two serious flow generators in there.

 

[goatous]

Unfortunately, I don't have Mg test yet (in delivery now) along with BRS two part. I haven't been adding anything other than doing 10% water changes weekly with Reef Crystals.
Yes the Gyre and MP40 have the potential to really get things moving but the MP40 is set to the very lowest setting and is blocked by a rock and the Gyre is also set very low alternating between forward 20% and reverse 80% and the reverse is mostly blocked by a large rock.

 

[wrasse]

Torch corals and the like can be touchy. Sometimes there is nothing you can so, but learn how these guys do in your tank. Do you have any brown jelly where the flesh is? From your pic, the coral has a lot of tissue loss if they are showing the exposed skeleton you may want to avoid them when you purchase. I got a wall coral around a year ago and it had a little bit of exposed skeleton. It got brown jelly and over weeks it would look bad then good then bad again slowly loosing its flesh. I tried for weeks to save and finally it went to the coral grave yard.
I have some other euphellia and they are doing great. Learn from what happens, your other one looks great.
Suggestions: try not to touch the flesh, use indirect flow, observe and see where the corals seem most happy.
Good luck

 

[Paulip]

I have a similar problem with a hammer. No symptoms, just retracted polyps. Though by putting it together with the frogspawn, it encourages the hammer to reach out and touch the frogspawn.

Apparently, they are enthused with trying to kill each other. But cause no harm, because they have the same toxins.

Only a temporary solution, but it takes away some of the worry.

 

[goatous]

Sometimes there is nothing you can so, but learn how these guys do in your tank. Do you have any brown jelly where the flesh is? From your pic, the coral has a lot of tissue loss if they are showing the exposed skeleton you may want to avoid them when you purchase.

When I bought it, it looked great and after a few days some of the polyps were deflated so I moved it down in the tank to a less bright area then it looked worse so I turned off the Gyre and MP40 for a week to see if it was too much flow, then it looked worse so I thought that maybe the frogspawn was stinging it (even though the two are the same family - I'm just guessing at this point). No brown jelly that I can see either... I hope it pulls through but it isn't looking good.

I have a similar problem with a hammer. No symptoms, just retracted polyps. Though by putting it together with the frogspawn, it encourages the hammer to reach out and touch the frogspawn.

I had it right next to the frogspawn all along and just moved it today thinking maybe the frogspawn is the troublemaker... I know they "shouldn't" be able to sting each other, but I'm running out of things to try.

 

[Paulip]

At this point, I would wait it out.

A google of the problem will show you that some people have had corals come back from what had been thought to be a dead stump for weeks. I wouldn't worry about Aquapros, either. They run a neat operation and their product turnover is so fast that it would be business suicide for a supplier to give them an unhealthy specimen. I don't like to see the starving tangs, though.

 

[goatous]

The only reason I mentioned [MENTION=9]AQUAPROS[/MENTION] is because they seem to have a good reputation and I think the torch was in very good health when I got it. (not a chain store purchase with poor track record)
I am assuming it is something I am doing wrong with no experience to say it isn't me.

 

[troublemaker]

You may have just got a bad one, it happens. I don't even want to comment on the amount of healthy buys I have killed.

 

[goatous]

Dave from AquaPros reached out to me and suggested bringing in a water sample to test, which I did tonight.

The Alkalinity was high otherwise things were in spec. His thoughts were that the high alk could be burning the torch. As I'm not dosing anything and just doing 10% weekly water changes, the only place the alk could be coming from was the ReefCrystals during water changes. Stopping water changes until Alk drops and switching brands of salt. I have 6 SPS frags, a couple montipora frags and the frogspawn to hopefully consume some of the alkalinity but my lighting was purposely low to not bleach anything and was ramping slowly brighter and was definitely not bright enough to encourage vigorous growth - time to apply more power.

Notably the nutrients were very low and Dave suggested raising the nutrient level in the tank could help. I didn't exactly follow the explanation how it will help, but will definitely try it. The low nutrients makes some sense because I don't have any algae (which could be due in part to the high Alk having algaecide properties) and phosphates are nearly undetectable even though I'm feeding frozen brine and mysis shrimp twice a day, have an auto-feeder dropping pellets 3X a day, plus a daily scoop of reef chili, and a bit of seaweed for the emerald crab who has no algae to eat. I'm pretty sure the inverts, two chromis and the ever famished clown, who bites me if my hand doesn't have food in it, will be loving the enhanced feeding program.

Otherwise the torch is still alive and hopefully pulls through and it is nice to have a place with great customer service.

 

[Paulip]

Very important relationship: High alkalinity and low nutrient is rough for all coral. ie 8+ ALk and zero nitrates would be rough for a hammer (frag). My orange ricordia, which is known to thrive in dirty water, can handle lower nutrients than my purple hammer. So, I dose 2ppm nitrates just to have deeper colors on the hammer. Less than that and he starts turning blue/grey at the tips.


With nitrates at 10, you may not have a low nutrient problem. And 7.7 dKH alk, assuming it's correct, is not high considering that nitrate level. I wouldn't go hog wild on feeding, yet.

It's a waiting game. Maybe your clown is being too enthusiastic with a potential host.

 

[goatous]

Thanks for everyones advice and ideas, I just wanted to give an update of what I did and how it turned out.
First, I stopped doing water changes and allowed the Alk slowly to drop from +10 to 7.6 and bumped up the feeding. I also moved him to a more protected location from the light and flow.
The increased feeding did cause the nitrates to really jump, with my test it was hard to tell for sure but it was somewhere above 20 ppm while the phosphates remained <0.17 ppm. I found the relatively low phosphates while having high nitrates interesting.
Once the torch was no longer declining and starting to improve, I switch brands of salt to Aquavitro Salinity and started doing water changes to pull down the nitrates below 10 ppm. I also just added a skimmer to help control the nitrates. The torch is on the mend and the attached a pic he's in the top right in the sand. He isn't thriving but he's doing better and is improving slowly every day. Sorry I can't take professional pictures like some of you.
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