ISO Biopellet Advice

[Irsug1]

Hey guys, I have a 55 gallon tank and sump with another 15+ gallons, Octopus sss1000 skimmer, JNS Alpha biopellet reactor, 7" filter sock, IM desktop GFO reactor.
I cannot get my nitrates below 20ppm and Phosphate jumps around between .03 to .15 at times when in need of new GFO. I am at the manufacturers suggested amount of 3ml per gallon roughly. I have 150ml in my reactor with a fast tumble as there is no flow control.
I have been running like this for almost a year. I have experienced stn/rtn on some sps during this time and I'm stumped.
Thoughts on increasing the amount of bio pellets?
Thanks in advance.

 

[SkullV]

I know this sounds counterproductive, but try running without GFO for a month or so and see how it goes. The bacteria associated with bio pellets need to take up both nitrate and phosphate proportionally in order to eat either. If you are sucking out all the phosphate with GFO the nitrates won't get taken up.

What is your bioload like in the 55g?

 

[Irsug1]

I am willing to try that Ted. So with that, my question is - What is too high for my corals/sps in regards to phosphate? I don't want to kill anything while experimenting with this..
I don't think my bioload is very heavy. My understanding is 1 fish per 5 gallons. Correct? I am below this..
Blue Hippo Tang, Brown Tang, Solar Wrasse, Small Yellowtail Tamarin Wrasse, Bi-Color Blenny, Watchman Goby & Pistol Shrimp pair, Spotted Mandarin

 

[SkullV]

I am willing to try that Ted. So with that, my question is - What is too high for my corals/sps in regards to phosphate? I don't want to kill anything while experimenting with this..
I don't think my bioload is very heavy. My understanding is 1 fish per 5 gallons. Correct? I am below this..
Blue Hippo Tang, Brown Tang, Solar Wrasse, Small Yellowtail Tamarin Wrasse, Bi-Color Blenny, Watchman Goby & Pistol Shrimp pair, Spotted Mandarin

Holy 55g bioload! Get rid of both tangs ASAP and watch your levels come down quickly. Fish/g is a pretty "freshwater" way of thinking too. It doesn't apply that well to marine aquaria. For instance, that Blue Tang can't be considered close to the same as a bi-color blenny with regards to Fish/G.

 

[ultimatemj]

SkullV, I'm curious, what do you think stopping the GFO will do?

Since the BP use 16 times as much N03 as P04 and there is "plenty" of P04 in his tank, so I might look elsewhere.

How much live rock or other filter media do you have?
How often do you change water? And the filter sock?
Is the skimmer cranking out skimmate?​

You said you've had it running for over a year, so it's probably not this, but did you "seed" the media with any nitrobacteria? That might be the other thing I'd try.

I had good results loading my sump full of Seachem Pond Matrix (high surface area media) and seeding it with Stability (nitrobacteria daily for 7days). With that and 10% weekly water changes (now biweekly) I was able to bring down N03 from 160+ to something very low.
View attachment 2627View attachment 2625

 

[ultimatemj]

Um yea, those 2 pigs...er...Tangs are probably not helping your cause

 

[SkullV]

SkullV, I'm curious, what do you think stopping the GFO will do?

Since the BP use 16 times as much N03 as P04 and there is "plenty" of P04 in his tank, so I might look elsewhere.

It was just a general thought based on the inaccuracy of hobby grade test kits. Now that he posted his bioload I would say that getting rid of the two tangs in a 55g is the place to start.

 

[Irsug1]

Okay so I guess I have a heavy bio load. My wife isn't going to like getting rid of the tangs..
I am measuring P04 with a hanna checker. I have something like 60lbs of live rock, 10 to 15 percent weekly water changes and sock changes or sooner if the sock looks discolored. The skimmer produces a lot of skimmate as well, I run it on the wet side and needs to be dumped every day or two. I have tried dosing microbacter 7 but didn't see any testable results. I did add about 1 liter of K1 media to tumble in my sump and saw some small relief there. I am considering buying those manufactured substrate balls that BRS advertises to add to my sump as well.

 

[SkullV]

K1 will help convert ammonia through to nitrate but won't "complete the cycle" and process the nitrates. The K1 has no room for anaerobic bacteria which does that task. I don't think your rock is the problem though, those tangs have got to go. Maybe if your wife really loves the tangs you can convince her to upgrade to a 125 and increase your water volume!

 

[Irsug1]

K1 will help convert ammonia through to nitrate but won't "complete the cycle" and process the nitrates. The K1 has no room for anaerobic bacteria which does that task. I don't think your rock is the problem though, those tangs have got to go. Maybe if your wife really loves the tangs you can convince her to upgrade to a 125 and increase your water volume!

Is there anything I can do to allow me to keep the tangs? Adding more substrate to the sump would help wouldn't it?
So if I have a high bioload then how is it that some of the larger tanks I have seen have schools of large fish swimming around and don't have this issue?
Bummer and No Fair!

 

[SkullV]

Is there anything I can do to allow me to keep the tangs? Adding more substrate to the sump would help wouldn't it?
So if I have a high bioload then how is it that some of the larger tanks I have seen have schools of large fish swimming around and don't have this issue?
Bummer and No Fair!

The solution to pollution is dilution. The more water volume there is, the more you can get away with before it becomes a problem. Disregarding entirely the size of the tangs vs. the size of the tank, tangs are super messy. They eat a lot, and they poop a lot. From just a nutrient export point of view. You could try adding chaeto or other macro in a refugium, could do more water changes, etc. etc. etc. but really, in a 55g, two tangs are going to be too much bioload and make things difficult.

 

[ultimatemj]

You have plenty of nitrifying ability, but not enough to complete the cycle. You've probably heard the term 'nitrate factory' lol.

Reducing bio-load will for sure help, but you could also benefit from building up anaerobic bacteria to turn the N03 into N...which is what I did.

I think there are only 3 mediums being sold that do this on a significant scale better than plain ol live rock: Eheim substrat, Marinpure ceramic and Seachem matrix. I went with the latter and, although took a couple of months, am very happy with the results.

Lastly, you'll need to come to grips with the fact the tangs are not long term residents. Depending on their size you might be able to house them for a while longer...but it's just a matter of time before they are bigger than reasonable for your 55~


Tapa

 

[Irsug1]

Allrightey then.. I appreciate the advise Ted & MJ.
I believe the substrate balls I wanted were the Marinpure ceramic. I'll talk to the wife tonight about losing the tangs.

 

[Sawdonkey]

Is there anything I can do to allow me to keep the tangs? Adding more substrate to the sump would help wouldn't it?
So if I have a high bioload then how is it that some of the larger tanks I have seen have schools of large fish swimming around and don't have this issue?
Bummer and No Fair!

Regardless of bioload issues, you won't be able to keep these tangs in there long term. I don't know how big they are currently, but they will eventually need much more swimming room. This is coming from a guy who had a naso in a 56, and then upgraded to a 90, and then a 220 to accommodate it.

Your tank is stocked like a fowlr, and until you stock it like a reef, you're going have fowlr-like parameters. I'm sure there are ways to get around this, but you're fighting an uphill battle.

 

[imranh]

I consider my tank to have a fairly heavy bio-load: 1 Tiny tang (size of a quarter), six line, purple firefish, and 2 clowns in a 40. Upgrading soon to a 90+ but running like this for 6months.

My nitrates are undetectable and low Phos as well. I have tons of SPS frags.

I run the following: Purigen, Carbon and Phosguard. Love them all. Doing 10% WC per week but sometimes 25% every two weeks.


What's your feeding like? How much? what? and how often?

I'd suggest the following:
2. Sell one of tangs. Ideally the bigger.
3. Checkout purigen.
4. Start saving money for an upgrade

Good luck.

 

[SkullV]

To be honest, your skimmer blows for your tank/bioload.

His skimmer is more than enough for his tank if properly stocked. That's a pretty nice skimmer as far as mid-end skimmers go.

 

[imranh]

You're right. I completely misread the model and thought of the bh1000 HOB. Good on the skimmer Updated my other post.

Enjoy and good luck!

His skimmer is more than enough for his tank if properly stocked. That's a pretty nice skimmer as far as mid-end skimmers go.

 

[Irsug1]

Thanks guys, I am getting rid of my blue hippo tang he is the largest of the bunch. I'll be offering him in a new thread shortly.