Justified?
- Thread starter m.miller1547
- Start date
DD
"Rambo"
It sounded like he said drop the knife. But I didn't see him needing to unload half a mag. The dude didn't go at him in a threatening manner so not sure it was justified. If I'm mistaken and it was a gun, then I'd say he was all good.
Edit: I just watched the beginning again. He said drop the knife, but the dude kept fumbling with something by his waist, the officer said it again and opened fire. Perhaps the officer thought that he was going for a gun? I guess it would depend on what the call was for. If it was armed robbery or something then I could understand the officer opening up on him when he kept fumbling with something by his waist. But he did say drop the knife so I don't know. Either way someone lost their life and that's unfortunate. Just wonder what the dude was thinking. The officer had a bead on him from 6 feet away. You're pretty much done at that point and might as well put your hands up and listen because if you don't, the only result will be what happened.
Edit: I just watched the beginning again. He said drop the knife, but the dude kept fumbling with something by his waist, the officer said it again and opened fire. Perhaps the officer thought that he was going for a gun? I guess it would depend on what the call was for. If it was armed robbery or something then I could understand the officer opening up on him when he kept fumbling with something by his waist. But he did say drop the knife so I don't know. Either way someone lost their life and that's unfortunate. Just wonder what the dude was thinking. The officer had a bead on him from 6 feet away. You're pretty much done at that point and might as well put your hands up and listen because if you don't, the only result will be what happened.
krocky12
New member
+1 the officer gave him multiple warning and he kept fumbling with something and the officer may have thought he was in danger so i say good job officer
RedDevil.258
Active member
Well within the danger zone for a knife attack. Real shame though. Wonder why the officer knew his name?
m.miller1547
Active member
My girlfriend showed me this. She's studying and is planning to apply at sheriffs office. Her mom actually forwarded the link. I first thought it all happen way fast and 11 bullets was a bit much considering he was down and the office was still firing. Then of course its a matter training. If your threatened.. end the threat. Who knows what he was going for in truck. I agree with officers reaction considering he did holster his weapon then redraw to shoot. If the man would have chilled out and listen he would be alive.
steveo9043
New member
I'm torn here... There is a lot of info left out. You can tell the cop was waiting for him to come home. Cops are (at least should be) taught how to use force properly. Why wasn't a taser used? Why did he unload so many rounds? Why were they kill shots? If you can't shoot someone's arm or leg at 4ft away, you shouldn't be a cop.
If a guy is suspected of armed Robbery or known to be armed, the cop wouldn't go on a stake out (which it looks like) alone.
I thought all officers are trained EMT's? He had a medic bag but all he cared about was gloves to check on a lifeless body. Why didn't he or another officer there start chest compressions? This was also recorded in 2011 and since I can't sleep im going to look into it more on the Internet.
If a guy is suspected of armed Robbery or known to be armed, the cop wouldn't go on a stake out (which it looks like) alone.
I thought all officers are trained EMT's? He had a medic bag but all he cared about was gloves to check on a lifeless body. Why didn't he or another officer there start chest compressions? This was also recorded in 2011 and since I can't sleep im going to look into it more on the Internet.
steveo9043
New member
According to the attorney he was tangled in the seat belt and that was what he was reaching for.
capysolo
New member
Not all police departments use tazers. I don't believe that police shoot to wound, if they feel it's necessary to shoot, it's shoot to kill. Very few officers, if any, are trained as EMT's, they get basic CPR. Firefighters are trained as EMT's.
Tbonekilla
Member
It's illegal to shoot to wound. Lethal force has to meet lethal force. A wounding means that you felt your life was not threatened thus prohibiting you from using deadly force. Shooting is deadly force regardless of shot placement.
You fire as many shots as needed to stop the threat.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2
You fire as many shots as needed to stop the threat.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2
rosko23
Active member
Steve no offense. But pretty much everything u stated is false.
We don't train to shoot people in arms and legs. Or shoot the gun out of someone's hand. That's TV. He followed the use of force model correctly. A knife is a deadly weapon. So a tazer would not be used against a deadly weapon. And just an FYI tazers don't work on everyone.
What if you were the police and you used ur tazer and it was ineffective. Then the guy killed you and we were watching the video. You know what every one would be saying? "Why didn't he shoot him?" People LOVE to "Monday morning" QB. Especially citizens. "Why didn't he do this?" "Why didn't he use the force?" Etc. the call came out that this fool was armed and dangerous and was carrying a knife. When I'm pointing my weapon at you and tell you don't move (over 5 times) and drop the knife... And you continue to reach for something or what not. Then you make a sudden movement to your waistband. Your basically asking to get shot. I don't care how quick you are, action is faster then reaction. I'm not waiting to find out if its a real knife, real gun, or what not. I'm sorry. I will eliminate the threat. And for everyone who doesn't know. Shooting 1 rd or 20 rds is the same amount of paperwork. I can tell you that I know first hand you can shoot someone in the chest with a .45 cal at less then 6 ft and they will continue to run. So an officer is trained to shoot til the threat is eliminate. If you notice when he shot the offender continued to reach and make movements, he's still a threat. He can be on the ground shot and still have a gun and shoot you or someone else. But civilians don't think like that.
I would love for all civilians to go through some of our training with the scenarios. Hell I've seen it, they start shooting everyone once someone makes a little movement. Bc of fear.
And as for the EMT.. That is false. I am not trained to b an EMT, my job is to render aid.. Which can be calling for an ambulance. Officers get sued allllll the time for doing too much and the families say that the officers hurt them an what not. Didn't do enough... When I watched this video.. I was like "****.. He's doing wayyyy to much getting trauma kit and cutting shirt"...
I'm sorry if my comments aren't the ones you wanna hear.. But they are the comments of an officer who has lived this nonsense first hand. Has been involved in many scenarios like the above, who's had 3 partners shot in the line of duty, and has seen other officers killed by $hitheads. Some of the officers would still be here if they didn't second guess themselves and shot first.
My goal everyday is to make sure my team and myself come home safe every night. I don't worry about making other people happy.
rosko23
Active member
Yeah and attorney's never lie.
rosko23
Active member
Thank u
Tbonekilla
Member
I agree. I'm not a police officer but my concealed weapon class was done by Glendale Police Department in Arizona. Our instructor made us go through police training for ballistics and tactics. We had a FATS simulator and everything. Was pretty cool. Only one miss, no friendlies hit, all baddies hit.
The mission statement of the class for them is they wanted civilians to act and behave like officers when carrying instead of these mall ninja commando trainers that do not have any real world experience.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2
rosko23
Active member
They use to have "News day" at the CPD Academy. This opened the eyes to the idiot a$$ reporters who would always say police didn't have to shoot or why didn't they shoot gun out of hand and what not... They put them in scenarios and man o'man. The stories I've been told. One reporter started to cry, another went commando and shot and old lady. That's y I always laugh when hearing.. "I would have done this... Or that"...my response is... "No you wouldn't have"
That's like me saying I would have played better then Cutler. No I wouldn't... That's why I'm not in the NFL. I never ever say that to another police officer.., bc even though I've been trained. Everyone reacts differently.
DD
"Rambo"
Never, ever. Lol!
capysolo
New member
Ok, lets say that that is correct, and he DIDN'T have a knife... He should have just stopped when the officer said to. But, he kept struggling and reaching, making it look like he was going for a weapon (hypothetical situation here)... If it were my brother being the officer (he is a police officer) I'd want him to shoot.
I watched the video, saw the knife. Justified.
steveo9043
New member
Ok I understand the only shoot to kill thing. But was it necessary to unload 11 rounds? Even when he's on the ground motionless?
Was the officer right to shoot? Yes. Was 11 rounds necessary? No not in my opinion. What sucks is this family will get money from the police, whether its settled in or out of court. Usually families of gang members aren't much better, so let's make them rich.
Justified.... I could say yes but I could also say yes to excessive.
Was the officer right to shoot? Yes. Was 11 rounds necessary? No not in my opinion. What sucks is this family will get money from the police, whether its settled in or out of court. Usually families of gang members aren't much better, so let's make them rich.
Justified.... I could say yes but I could also say yes to excessive.
steveo9043
New member
I appreciate your work and your insight. I understand adrenaline rushes in situations like this. If I had to defend my life you bet your *** I'm unloading a full magazine.
It's hard comparing officers to non officers and what is right vs wrong. Officers will always be held to a higher standard. I'm not defending the guy at all or after seeing his record thinking "that's a guy the world is going to miss" but IF there is a way to not take a life I feel the life shouldn't be taken.