Need some help thru QT process

[Darienreefs7]

Alright everybody, I got a little bit too confident in my fish keeping skills and added a rabbitfish right before I left town for Phoenix for a soccer tournament. Needless to say when I got home the Rabbitfish was no where to be seen and my blue tang, kole tang, midas blenny, and flame angel have ick. Did a little bit of reading and saw that all fish are exposed to ick, and will need to be properly medicated. I have a 40 breeder that is currently set up for a QT and purchased cupramine and prazipro for the medication. So I'll ask the experts on how I should go about treating these fish. Current stock is

2 clowns
Midas blenny noticeably sick
Kole Tang- noticeably sick
Flame Angel- noticeably sick
Blue tang- noticeably sick
Red head Solon Fairy- slightly miscolored
3 longspine cardinals
Potters Wrasse
Blue Star wrasse
Yellow Coris
Formosa Wrasse
Red Coris Wrasse

 

[icedearth15324]

First, I would buy a second 40 breeder, or find a used 55 with stand off craigslist. Putting that many fish in a single 40 will overly stress them and will make treatment difficult. Run an AC70 with a sponge that was sitting in your DT to get the bacteria. Otherwise be prepared for water changes, or using like Seachem Prime. Load up the bottom with pvc tubes for the fish to hide in. I recommend 1 tube for every 1-2 fish. Those ammonia alert sticks that get suctioned to the tank are a lifesaver for QT tanks. http://www.amazon.com/Seachem-67100100-Ammonia-Alert/dp/B000255R5G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1456505862&sr=8-1&keywords=ammonia+alert

Second, how long ago did you get the rabbitfish? My main question is ich does require some time to become that deadly, so it is possible the ich was already in your tank, and the stress of the extra fish brought it out more. But rabbitfish are usually pretty resistant to ich so it may have died from something else, especially that quickly.

Third, once the fish are in the QT tank, begin running cupramine. If you don't have it yet, make sure to get the copper test kit from seachem. You never want to dose copper without knowing what your levels are. Follow the instructions listed on the bottle, and do not deviate. I've read you can do prazipro at the same time, but I personally don't like mixing medications. Just like for humans, mixing fish medications can be dangerous to them. Once you start dosing, monitor your fish. If they stop eating or look lethargic, then either slow down the copper you are adding for an extra day.

Fourth, keep your DT fallow for 10-12 weeks to get rid of any ich that may be living there. It sucks but that is the only way to be sure it is gone.

The most important part, is to just take your time and don't rush any of this. If you rush the process, you risk having to start over again or hurting your fish.

I am going through the same process right now. I bought a new tang and didn't QT it properly, and it brought ich that wiped out my whole tank because I didn't see the symptoms.

 

[Darienreefs7]

First, I would buy a second 40 breeder, or find a used 55 with stand off craigslist. Putting that many fish in a single 40 will overly stress them and will make treatment difficult. Run an AC70 with a sponge that was sitting in your DT to get the bacteria. Otherwise be prepared for water changes, or using like Seachem Prime. Load up the bottom with pvc tubes for the fish to hide in. I recommend 1 tube for every 1-2 fish. Those ammonia alert sticks that get suctioned to the tank are a lifesaver for QT tanks. http://www.amazon.com/Seachem-67100100-Ammonia-Alert/dp/B000255R5G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1456505862&sr=8-1&keywords=ammonia+alert

Second, how long ago did you get the rabbitfish? My main question is ich does require some time to become that deadly, so it is possible the ich was already in your tank, and the stress of the extra fish brought it out more. But rabbitfish are usually pretty resistant to ich so it may have died from something else, especially that quickly.

Third, once the fish are in the QT tank, begin running cupramine. If you don't have it yet, make sure to get the copper test kit from seachem. You never want to dose copper without knowing what your levels are. Follow the instructions listed on the bottle, and do not deviate. I've read you can do prazipro at the same time, but I personally don't like mixing medications. Just like for humans, mixing fish medications can be dangerous to them. Once you start dosing, monitor your fish. If they stop eating or look lethargic, then either slow down the copper you are adding for an extra day.

Fourth, keep your DT fallow for 10-12 weeks to get rid of any ich that may be living there. It sucks but that is the only way to be sure it is gone.

The most important part, is to just take your time and don't rush any of this. If you rush the process, you risk having to start over again or hurting your fish.

I am going through the same process right now. I bought a new tang and didn't QT it properly, and it brought ich that wiped out my whole tank because I didn't see the symptoms.

I'm gonna use the water from my current 125 to start the 40. I am gonna use a canister to keep the water moving as well. I plan to change out 5g every other day. I will get that ammonia alert thing as well as a copper test kit. I will look into getting a second tank. Thanks for all the input this is much appreciated

 

[icedearth15324]

I'm gonna use the water from my current 125 to start the 40. I am gonna use a canister to keep the water moving as well. I plan to change out 5g every other day. I will get that ammonia alert thing as well as a copper test kit. I will look into getting a second tank. Thanks for all the input this is much appreciated

No problem, dealing with QT is definitely a stressful thing, and I know when I first did it I wanted as much info as possible. Only reason I recommend the sponge is because there isn't a lot of bacteria in the tank water, it is all in the rocks. So water alone will not be able to fully handle the bioload from the fish.

 

[Darienreefs7]

No problem, dealing with QT is definitely a stressful thing, and I know when I first did it I wanted as much info as possible. Only reason I recommend the sponge is because there isn't a lot of bacteria in the tank water, it is all in the rocks. So water alone will not be able to fully handle the bioload from the fish.

I read up alot on the whole bacterial situation and if need be I have marinepure spheres I could add to help. This is my first time QT so I'm gonna try and go slow and do everything right the first time

 

[MMreef]

http://http://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-quarantine.189815/

 

[100LL]

I read up alot on the whole bacterial situation and if need be I have marinepure spheres I could add to help. This is my first time QT so I'm gonna try and go slow and do everything right the first time

I recently used a few cycled marinepure spheres that had been in my DT for 12 months tank for a new 20g QT and they didn't really have the desired effect and the tank still went through the normal cycling process.

Going forward (as I had successfully done in the past) I will always place a new sponge in my DT to use for fish QT or hospital tanks. When I'm done I will throw the sponge away and have another waiting for any future need.

I know you know this, but NEVER put anything back in your DT that has seen medication or even QT'd fish that could have carried other disease.

 

[EricTheRed]

I'm gonna use the water from my current 125 to start the 40. I am gonna use a canister to keep the water moving as well. I plan to change out 5g every other day. I will get that ammonia alert thing as well as a copper test kit. I will look into getting a second tank. Thanks for all the input this is much appreciated

In your first post you stated that you already have a 40 already setup for QT. Did you just set it up or is it cycled already? Using water from your existing 125 WILL NOT give you a cycled QT. if your QT is not cycled then I'd suggest adding a bacterial additive to help it cycle. Also, and most importantly, you must test for ammonia several times per day if the QT is not cycled. there are additives you can add to remove the ammonia which you might need to do for several weeks until the tank is cycled, or your fish will die.

My other advice is to pour the Cupramine down the drain and get CopperSafe. I used Cupramine on NUMEROUS ich infested fish and it does not work very well. Don't believe the marketing hype about it being safer for fish. That might be true but if it doesn't kill the ich then the fish die.

 

[Darienreefs7]

In your first post you stated that you already have a 40 already setup for QT. Did you just set it up or is it cycled already? Using water from your existing 125 WILL NOT give you a cycled QT. if your QT is not cycled then I'd suggest adding a bacterial additive to help it cycle. Also, and most importantly, you must test for ammonia several times per day if the QT is not cycled. there are additives you can add to remove the ammonia which you might need to do for several weeks until the tank is cycled, or your fish will die.

My other advice is to pour the Cupramine down the drain and get CopperSafe. I used Cupramine on NUMEROUS ich infested fish and it does not work very well. Don't believe the marketing hype about it being safer for fish. That might be true but if it doesn't kill the ich then the fish die.

There is no water in the QT yet. I have about 50 gallons mixing up right now that I could use for the QT. I ordered a copper test kit as well as an ammonia alert. I also have some prime just in case I run into any ammonia problems. I have never heard anything bad from cupramine until your comment. Does anyone else have success using it? Or best bet to return it and get coppersafe? Also added a few sponges to my DT just in case.

 

[Emisis]

I would really suggest using Cholorquine Phosphate for treatment, I used it and it is easy easy easy. The most difficult part is obtaining it. Prazipro if used can possibly kill your wrasse....ask me how I know........ Also, DO NOT use Prime with copper.....Not sure if I can link it or not but..............read through this thread on R2R--------------- http://www.reef2reef.com/threads/treatment-options-102.189658/

 

[Darienreefs7]

DO not use Prime with copper.....Not sure if I can link it or not but..............read through this thread on R2R--------------- http://www.reef2reef.com/threads/treatment-options-102.189658/

Noted. Thanks for the link. I will stick to water changes

 

[Emisis]

Noted. Thanks for the link. I will stick to water changes

I edited my post, sorry I didnt refresh after I posted. If you go through that link and read the treatment options and follow the links in the thread itself you will be much wiser on your QT efforts.

 

[Darienreefs7]

I edited my post, sorry I didnt refresh after I posted. If you go through that link and read the treatment options and follow the links in the thread itself you will be much wiser on your QT efforts.

I know there was a group buy on this a while back, but is this a safe source? Thanks.

 

[Emisis]

Well..............................I have some of that and some from the group buy. The stuff you posted did not kill my fish, maybe luck I don't know. When I got the stuff from the group buy I checked to see if there was a difference. I didn't send it out to be analyzed so chemical components I cannot comment on, but there was a difference in texture and ability for it to dissolve, the CP you posted dissolved slowly and had more of a sugar texture. The CP from the GB is more like powder sugar and dissolves rather easily. I switched to the GB CP and used it for the remainder of the treatment. It seems that the price has went up too, I didnt pay that much for 100 grams..........There is also an argument about the Fleabay CP on R2R too, I needed it quickly and was willing to take the chance.

 

[Darienreefs7]

Is there a link to the GB CP?

 

[Emisis]

http://www.chicagoreefs.com/forums/showthread.php/29249-Chloroquine-phosphate-looking-for-3-people?highlight=chloroquine+phosphate

 

[Darienreefs7]

http://www.chicagoreefs.com/forums/showthread.php/29249-Chloroquine-phosphate-looking-for-3-people?highlight=chloroquine+phosphate

Since I could only purchase the GB CP in bulk, I think I'll just stick with the eBay brand. As long as there is no noticeable difference between the two I don't think it's worth setting up another GB. In what amounts do you dose it?

 

[Emisis]

Copied from thread in R2R:

Chloroquine phosphate: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans), Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium), Brooklynella hostilis & Uronema marinum.

How To Treat - Chloroquine phosphate (CP) is a “new drug” that actually was widely used to control external protozoa in saltwater aquariums back in the 70s & 80s. It was even used in some aquarium medications sold at LFS. Nowadays CP requires a prescription to purchase legitimately, making it more difficult to obtain. Fast forward to today and thanks to the power of the Internet, CP has come roaring back! The biggest obstacle to overcome is obtaining pharmaceutical grade 99% pure CP. I cannot stress the importance of this enough. Do not buy it from some guy on eBay or even an online vendor. The only way to be sure you are getting 99% pure CP is to get your vet to write you a prescription that can then be filled at a local pharmacy.

CP is a “one and done” medication, meaning you dose once and that’s it. There are no test kits for CP, so it’s important that you dose accurately using a digital scale. Also, don’t forget to dose any replacement water (from water changes, but not top off) with CP. The dosage rates are as follows:

• Prophylactic treatment is 40 mg per gallon.
• Active infections (visible symptoms present) is 60mg/gal.
• For Uronema marinum and really bad infestations, you can dose up to 80mg/gal.

As you can see, there is quite a bit of wiggle room between the minimum & maximum dosage. Practically speaking, 40mg/gal will treat all external protozoa issues… it’s just that the higher dosages may get the job done a little faster. Treatment lasts 30 consecutive days, and no carbon, UV, etc. may be used during this time (although it can be used later when you wish to remove the medication from the water). A little quirk about CP is that it is light sensitive, so you cannot use a light on the aquarium while treating. However, this does not mean your fish have to remain in total darkness; ambient lighting (say, from a window across the room) is fine. CP is NOT reef safe. In addition to killing your corals, it is a very strong algaecide.

Pros - Gentle on most fish (DO NOT USE with wrasses), a “one and done” medication that treats most external protozoa. CP is the closest thing there is to a “wonder drug” in our hobby.

Cons/Side Effects - Expensive, hard to get (requires a prescription), light sensitive; some evidence of appetite suppression with certain species (especially wrasses.) Attempts to feed CP laced food are usually not successful due to its bad metallic taste.




I started with 60mg since I had an active full blown outbreak, then went down to 40mg after 2 weeks. From my experience with it, first few days they seemed to lose any spots of Ich that were present. Then after those few days they looked like I salted them for baking, but in another few days they appeared Ich free and remained "clean" . You can read the entire thread here: http://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chloroquine-phosphate.192309/

 

[MMreef]

Since I could only purchase the GB CP in bulk, I think I'll just stick with the eBay brand. As long as there is no noticeable difference between the two I don't think it's worth setting up another GB. In what amounts do you dose it?

You can purchase smaller amounts from that company, I did call them , it is just higher price per gram, also according to the rep it is 99% pure CP.

 

[RotterTubeReef]

AGREED. Perfect. The only thing I do differently is dose 1/2 the recommended amount of cupramine by seachem. Dosing what they recommend is dangerously close to the toxic levels of copper for fish.

First, I would buy a second 40 breeder, or find a used 55 with stand off craigslist. Putting that many fish in a single 40 will overly stress them and will make treatment difficult. Run an AC70 with a sponge that was sitting in your DT to get the bacteria. Otherwise be prepared for water changes, or using like Seachem Prime. Load up the bottom with pvc tubes for the fish to hide in. I recommend 1 tube for every 1-2 fish. Those ammonia alert sticks that get suctioned to the tank are a lifesaver for QT tanks. http://www.amazon.com/Seachem-67100100-Ammonia-Alert/dp/B000255R5G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1456505862&sr=8-1&keywords=ammonia+alert

Second, how long ago did you get the rabbitfish? My main question is ich does require some time to become that deadly, so it is possible the ich was already in your tank, and the stress of the extra fish brought it out more. But rabbitfish are usually pretty resistant to ich so it may have died from something else, especially that quickly.

Third, once the fish are in the QT tank, begin running cupramine. If you don't have it yet, make sure to get the copper test kit from seachem. You never want to dose copper without knowing what your levels are. Follow the instructions listed on the bottle, and do not deviate. I've read you can do prazipro at the same time, but I personally don't like mixing medications. Just like for humans, mixing fish medications can be dangerous to them. Once you start dosing, monitor your fish. If they stop eating or look lethargic, then either slow down the copper you are adding for an extra day.

Fourth, keep your DT fallow for 10-12 weeks to get rid of any ich that may be living there. It sucks but that is the only way to be sure it is gone.

The most important part, is to just take your time and don't rush any of this. If you rush the process, you risk having to start over again or hurting your fish.

I am going through the same process right now. I bought a new tang and didn't QT it properly, and it brought ich that wiped out my whole tank because I didn't see the symptoms.