Sodium Bicarbonate VS Sodium Carbonate for Reef, what's the difference?

superfish

superfish

Member
I know most people are using SC.
On BRS, they have both for sale. For SC they said: for Daily dosing system, while for SB they said occasional dosing or larger alkalinity adjustments. I know SC is a bit more efficient on raising alk, but my question is what's the real difference between these two, why most people use SC?
I have been using SB ( baking soda from Walmart) as a weekly dose for my FOT. It's super cheap ( $2 for 4 lb) and earlier to dissolve than SC. Now I wanna use it as a daily dose for my mixed reef. Need to make it clear before I start dosing it to my reef.
Any thoughts?
 
superfish

superfish

Member
ultimatemj said:
SB is more than 10 times the ALK impact...challenging to use in a balanced approach, more commonly used for "corrections".

A couple of great articles on the topic:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/2/chemistry
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/11/chemistry
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/2/chemistry
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When useing reef calculator for my 50gal reef, looks like increasing 1DKH, i need 3.5grams of SC OR 5.6grams of SB.
so to me, it looks like SC is 1.6 times more efficient than SB, not sure what you mean by SB has 10 times more impact?
thanks for the links, i will look into it.
 
S

Sho Tank

New member
bicarbonate will raise alk, not buffer higher than 7.8 pH, not precipate out calcium.....bake at 300 for an hour or two to remove bicarbonate
carbonate will raise alk, pH and lower calcium
 
Sawdonkey

Sawdonkey

Premium member
superfish said:
I know most people are using SC.
On BRS, they have both for sale. For SC they said: for Daily dosing system, while for SB they said occasional dosing or larger alkalinity adjustments. I know SC is a bit more efficient on raising alk, but my question is what's the real difference between these two, why most people use SC?
I have been using SB ( baking soda from Walmart) as a weekly dose for my FOT. It's super cheap ( $2 for 4 lb) and earlier to dissolve than SC. Now I wanna use it as a daily dose for my mixed reef. Need to make it clear before I start dosing it to my reef.
Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
What is FOT? Is that "fish only tank?"

Are you dosing calcium too? Why not just use kalk to maintain both in one shot? Also super cheap. One gallon of Kalk from BRS lasts me about six months or more and it's about $10.
 
superfish

superfish

Member
Sho Tank said:
bicarbonate will raise alk, not buffer higher than 7.8 pH, not precipate out calcium.....bake at 300 for an hour or two to remove bicarbonate
carbonate will raise alk, pH and lower calcium
Click to expand...
That make sense, i do noticed the PH in my fish only system is around 7.8.
thanks
 
ultimatemj

ultimatemj

Active member
Looks like I misinterpreted the table from the first link:

Chemical Species Relative Contribution To Alkalinity
HCO3- (bicarbonate) 89.8
CO3-- (carbonate) 6.7
B(OH)4- (borate) 2.9
SiO(OH)3- (silicate) 0.2
MgOH+ (magnesium monohydroxylate) 0.1
OH- (hydroxide) 0.1
HPO4-- and PO4--- (phosphate) 0.1


The 3rd link I provided (Chemistry And The Aquarium: How To Select A Calcium And Alkalinity Supplementation Scheme ) should have the answers you are looking for.

It looks like the long term increase in salinity and higher cost are the reasons people use Kalk instead....but that is my interpretation.
Continual use of products like this will increase the salinity in the tank. The rise in salinity over time can be roughly calculated, though not knowing exactly what is in it makes the calculation only a ballpark figure. For every 1000 meq of alkalinity added in this fashion these products will deliver on the order of 60 grams of other ions to the tank. In a tank with a low calcification demand (defined below to be 18.3 thousand meq of alkalinity per year in a 100-gallon tank (50 meq/day)) this effect will raise the salinity by 3 ppt per year (compared to a normal salinity of S =35). In a high demand tank (defined below to be 219 thousand meq of alkalinity per year in a 100-gallon tank (600 meq/day), the salinity will rise by 35 ppt in a year, or approximately doubling the salinity. Consequently, the salinity should be monitored closely in using this type of additive, especially in a tank with high calcification rates.
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superfish said:
When useing reef calculator for my 50gal reef, looks like increasing 1DKH, i need 3.5grams of SC OR 5.6grams of SB.
so to me, it looks like SC is 1.6 times more efficient than SB, not sure what you mean by SB has 10 times more impact?
thanks for the links, i will look into it.
Click to expand...
 
superfish

superfish

Member
Sawdonkey said:
What is FOT? Is that "fish only tank?"

Are you dosing calcium too? Why not just use kalk to maintain both in one shot? Also super cheap. One gallon of Kalk from BRS lasts me about six months or more and it's about $10.
Click to expand...
Yes, i have a algae scrubber on my fish only tank, looks like it reduces alk a lot, calcium doesnt change at all. (around 320 from IO salt)
do you think i should dose kalk instead. since i dont really care cal level in my fish only tank.
 
Sawdonkey

Sawdonkey

Premium member
superfish said:
Yes, i have a algae scrubber on my fish only tank, looks like it reduces alk a lot, calcium doesnt change at all. (around 320 from IO salt)
do you think i should dose kalk instead. since i dont really care cal level in my fish only tank.
Click to expand...
Why do you even care about alk in a fish only?
 
ultimatemj

ultimatemj

Active member
Something sounds off, dKH of 1?!? IO is supposed to mix up over 6dKH http://web.archive.org/web/20001215070800/http:/www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/aqfm/1999/mar/features/1/default.asp

I highly doubt that much of difference would be because of an algae scrubber...

Might want to have some water tested by someone else before making any big changes, to make sure your test kit is accurate.
I'd also mix up some fresh salt water and test it at the same time.

Good luck!


superfish said:
Im not expert in chemistry, but i think my ATS uses a lot of alk.
before i start dosing NaHCO3, even with weekly water change, my KH is 1 and PH is 7...
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Sawdonkey

Sawdonkey

Premium member
ultimatemj said:
Something sounds off, dKH of 1?!? IO is supposed to mix up over 6dKH http://web.archive.org/web/20001215070800/http:/www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/aqfm/1999/mar/features/1/default.asp

I highly doubt that much of difference would be because of an algae scrubber...

Might want to have some water tested by someone else before making any big changes, to make sure your test kit is accurate.
I'd also mix up some fresh salt water and test it at the same time.

Good luck!
Click to expand...
I agree with this. I'm speculating, but I wouldn't think your scrubber is consuming a ton of your alk. Do you have a lot of coralline algae?
 
Venom

Venom

Premium member
superfish said:
Im not expert in chemistry, but i think my ATS uses a lot of alk.
before i start dosing NaHCO3, even with weekly water change, my KH is 1 and PH is 7...
Click to expand...
Chris I haven't notice any increase alk consumption running a ats over a year, may want to check your test kits.
 
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