What would these numbers make you think?

[ultimatemj]

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Oct 1st 2014 my P04 was .05, but I was running a cup and a half of GFO...and changing it monthly.

So to try and reduce cost, I put an algae scrubber online October 1st. After 4wks, nothing was growing so I started removing GFO...half, then a week later half more...then a week later the rest.

3 and a half months in, I'm still just getting "slime" growth...
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Tank has 90+% good health and growth, but I've had a few things fade and 2 of my main rocks now have a GHA outbreak (that may just be P04 leaching).

The 10% not so good health is 3 acans and 2 chalice frags faded to black on me...all the while all the other LPS (including chalices) and SPS are growing like weeds.

That said, things are good...just would like them better
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Only other change is over the last 6months I have continued to reduce feeding from a cube of mysis a day to 1/4 cube a day. I've continued to do a half dose of reefroids twice a week. The fish have adjusted, but I'm thinking this is related to the acans fading. I've tried weekly spot feeding but the cleaner shrimp come and rape them


Would you wait out the scrubber getting going or put GFO back online? Or other?


And would you increase feeding?

Curious your thoughts~

Thanks!

 

[100LL]

I'm curious what scrubber you're using and more specifically how many cubes it's rated for. Also, what made you cut back the feedings?

Be careful what you wish for as your tank looks pretty sweet as is.
That being said, I think you should consider feeding more (maybe a second nighttime lights out feeding for the benefit of the LPS) and this may also jumpstart scrubber growth. Unfortunately, the GHA will also feed on this so try adjusting your "on" period for your scrubber light for better/stronger growth.

What's the current lighting schedule on the scrubber?

 

[ultimatemj]

The SM Hog2 is rated for 2 cubes per day...
I cut back the feedings because it seems a) simply most folks way over feed and b) I was looking to reduce the total input to a closed system...and therefore reduce the load on my husbandry.
Felt like 1-1/2 cups of GFO on a 55g(70g total vol) was a lot...and I was having to replace it every month. Part of my issue is reuse of live rock that absorbed a lot of p04...but regardless I'm looking to achieve a stable environment with the least amount of maintenance and high "health health levels"

Scrubber is 18hrs on, from to 4pm to 10am...

Feeding wise, I lost my Terelabrus to carpet surfing and then I added 2 fish (starry blenny and bodianus opercularis) around the same time as the other changes.

BTW, Reefwise has a Terelabrus in house that I'd highly recommend...had I not replaced mine with the bodianus I'd be all over it!

 

[Siebo]

IMO - Before you do anything I would test your nitrates with a good test kit. API will not cut it. Use Red Sea or something similar.

 

[maazreef]

Tagging along. Having same issue. Considering algea scrubber

 

[ultimatemj]

Red Sea Pro NO3 test verified the low nitrate numbers: 0.25 measured.
And the GFO has brought the P04 down quickly (too quickly?)...will test again Saturday to see if exhausted.

The disconcerting news, I'm now chasing some kind of weird ALK issue...I ran out of Hanna reagent and stopped putting kalk in my ATO because the PH was hitting 8.5 at times...and the new stuff is measuring crazy low
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[EricTheRed]

Is your pH probe near where the ATO dumps the kalk water into your sump? This was happening to me so I moved my pH probe upstream from where my ATO (w/ kalk) feeds into my sump. Now my pH is a lot more stable This could be giving you weird spikes like the one visible on your Apex image. Also, yes, dropping phosphate too fast can cause your coral to have issues.

 

[ultimatemj]

Correct, the kalk is entering the sump where the PH probe is...I kinda like being able to see when ATO kicks and how concentrated the kalk is lol.

Still not sure how my ALK got so low...but putting saturated kalk back in the ATO is doing its thing...up .5dKH in a day. And I verified my salt mix is around 8dKH.

Looks like the GFO is already exhausted
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And now I'm having my first real gha & bubble outbreak


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[ultimatemj]

Last night I performed another 10% water change with fresh mix measuring 143ppm (8dKH) ALK.

This morning the tank is up to 115ppm (6.5dKH)...so still much lower than desired but trending in the right direction.

Planning another 10% wc tonight...

Beginning to wonder if the root issue was being too aggressive with the GFO (cup and half changed out every couple weeks on a 65gsystem)

Aquarium Chemistry: Effects of GFO (Granular Ferric Oxide) on 'Trace' Metals Concentrations in Artificial Seawater ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog

 

[ultimatemj]

Well, the numbers are "good" now...

Salinity is ~35ppm
P04 is under 0.05...it read zero on the Hanna but there is algae growing in the DT & the ATS.
N03 is less than 0.025 on the RedSeaPro tester
MAG is 1300
CAL is ~420
ALK is steady in the 8s dKh​

But now the inhabitants are not

I have significant LPS stress...a couple of chalices have begun STN, Acans are fading, Blastos are not inflated, torches look sick, AND I lost a frogspawn and a Duncan!
Duncans are like the hardiest coral I've ever kept!

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Feels like a crash coming on , but (strangely) the couple of SPS I have are growing well. Softies (mostly zoas) are growing and the fish are happy.

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Since my numbers look good, I increased my feeding and am doing some reef roid/chilli spot feeding, but not really seeing any feeding responses.

The additional feeding has not impacted my nitrates, but once the GFO is exhausted or removed P04 climbs fairly quickly....but I've been keeping on top of it, using less and changing more frequently and keeping P04 below 0.05. And the ATS is producing now...which is probably helping here as well.
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The other thing worth noting is that I have been doing 10% WC weekly and each time I mix up the fresh mix I'm finding precipitate that looks like aluminum chips in the bottom of the bucket...its way more metallic shiny in person.
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WTF?!

So, grasping at straws, I changed salt to Red Sea Pro this past weekend and have been doing daily 10g WCs (65g system volume)...was worried about doing a larger WC since the RSP is mixing up with ALK at 12 dKH.

Confused! Any thoughts???

 

[jrpark22000]

I keep similar numbers and have similar problems with some corals. My fix, target feed. I don't feed the corals who grow like weeds, just the ones who looked sluggish. I first tried every 5 days, but ended up with less than positive results. I've settled on feeding once every 3 days about 1.5-2 hours after lights out for sps feeding. lps are usually open the next morning when I get up for work at 5am so they get fed then.

The feed response was quite low at first but now any time I shut the flow off well after lights go out, all the sps hang out like it's the thing to do.

As with you, my po4 starts to rise quickly once GFO is exhausted. I change gfo when it reaches .08-.09.

 

[jrpark22000]

Forgot the important bit, Coral food. Acans, cabbage coral and chalices get gut loaded brine. Duncans, montis, sps and everything else get a mix of freeze dried powders. I've settled on coral frenzy, reef roids and esv freeze dried. The three cover the spectrum for particle size, food source, and oil content.

I mix a fair amount for each feeding, splitting it in half. The first half is poured into the power heads then immediately shut the power heads off. It disperses the food for everything to get a snack. I then target feed the second half to the corals who showed the most amount of stress before I started feeding and to those who I want to see grow faster. The power heads stay off for 1800 seconds (30 minutes) and resume normal operation afterwards. This is enough time for the sps to pull their slime back in eating all the food they've caught.

 

[mtrcyclefish]

Sounds to me like you're chasing numbers instead of enjoying what was a thriving tank. If the inhabitants are doing well then I wouldn't change a thing. Definitely continue to monitor your parameters but stop chasing a particular number. Some theories seem to suggest that phosphates aren't the evil thing we've been lead to believe they are.

 

[fftfk]

http://youtu.be/ZRIKW-9d2xI I think this is a good video about water chemistry and chasing numbers


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[ultimatemj]

There is something to that...
But I started this because of a few acans fading and likely reaching a bioload that could no longer be sustained by only water changes. Meaning my ALK was not stable until I added kalk in the ATO...but that became a self fulfilling prophecy. The tank increase its uptake and then the other numbers got out of whack. I'm referring to Redfield ratio mentioned in the video.

Which is what kicked off this thread...how did I end up with no Nitrates but notable Phosphates? Redfield you should see/want 16:1 and this is what I'm chasing...an imbalance.


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