Mixing Kalkwaser with Vinegar?? A ok?

[maazreef]

Has anyone ever done this?

I decided to start carbon dozing.

I regularly have a pump topping off kalkwaser every hour. I also have a top off tank with kalkwaser to top off my tank and replace evaporated water.
I have a 3 pump doser that doses calcium mag and kalk through out the day.

Recently (2 to 3 weeks) I started growing small patches of GHA through my rock work and it bothers me lol. I am currently running gfo or fine carbon on a reactor and switch it out from time to time at least every 3 weeks. I over feed my tank and I am happy doing so because I like chubby fish. I have a refugium but my chetoh disappeared. my next step would be to carbon dose (vinegar) and was wondering if anyone has ever mixed kalk and vinegar before? i didn't find anything on this so i thought I'd ask.

Currently I am waiting on an order of testing agents for my red sea set to check on phosphate.
My nitrates and nitrities are both at 1ppm. I do 10% water change religiously every Sunday afternoon. And TDS is at 0.


Thanks in advance.

 

[DanSreef]

I can't answer your question.....but one thing that is a concern is any Nitrites showing up in your tank. Anything over .25 ppm is stressful and toxic to your tank inhabitants. The other point I will make...over feeding is a big issue with GHA. I would recommend: checking your Nitrites...if they are 1... You need to fix this right away. From there....reduce your feedings. If you don't... You will have issues with Nitrates and Phosphates. ...and GHA.

 

[Sawdonkey]

It's fine to mix kalk and vinegar. You can even mix vinegar directly into the kalk if you want supersaturated kalk. If you dose vinegar directly into the tank, you'll have no issues.

 

[maazreef]

I can't answer your question.....but one thing that is a concern is any Nitrites showing up in your tank. Anything over .25 ppm is stressful and toxic to your tank inhabitants. The other point I will make...over feeding is a big issue with GHA. I would recommend: checking your Nitrites...if they are 1... You need to fix this right away. From there....reduce your feedings. If you don't... You will have issues with Nitrates and Phosphates. ...and GHA.

Yea I had an issue with a dying fish that i never found and since than I have been battling this algea. I did a 5% water change today as well in addition to yesterday's. Changed gfo, switched out filter sock and cleaned skimmer. I will do another water change as needed for the remainder of the week. Last week all levels where spot on besides my low alkalinity and yesterday is when I noticed the spike of up to 1. All fish and coral are perfectly fine though. As for excess feeding I might cut down for the rest of the week until I see that my skimmer and carbon dosing are in line and responding to the change.
Thanks again.

It's fine to mix kalk and vinegar. You can even mix vinegar directly into the kalk if you want supersaturated kalk. If you dose vinegar directly into the tank, you'll have no issues.

Thanks. I am going to start doing a daily mix of vinegar in my kalk. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't going to hinder any of the properties of the liquids if mixed together.

 

[rowdie]

Why not use alk in your 3 part doser instead of kalkwaser? Seems kinda redundant to dose kalk with calcium and mag. Not trying to be mean at all just wondering.

 

[Sawdonkey]

Yea I had an issue with a dying fish that i never found and since than I have been battling this algea. I did a 5% water change today as well in addition to yesterday's. Changed gfo, switched out filter sock and cleaned skimmer. I will do another water change as needed for the remainder of the week. Last week all levels where spot on besides my low alkalinity and yesterday is when I noticed the spike of up to 1. All fish and coral are perfectly fine though. As for excess feeding I might cut down for the rest of the week until I see that my skimmer and carbon dosing are in line and responding to the change.
Thanks again.

Thanks. I am going to start doing a daily mix of vinegar in my kalk. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't going to hinder any of the properties of the liquids if mixed together.

Rowdie is right on with his question. Why are you doing kalk (or why are you doing 2 part)? You could do two part or kalk, but doing both doesn't really make sense. It won't hurt anything, but it is redundant.

Are you mixing kalk every day? Seems like a lot of work? Just be aware, that adding vinegar to your kalk will make it much stronger and could increase your all quite a bit. You are currently not mixing your kalk strong enough or your coral alk demand is too high. Unless you have a tank jammed with sps, I assume you aren't mixing your kalk strong enough. If I were in your shoes, I'd bring the alk up to normal levels using the two part, then start mixing your kalk correctly, stop using two part, dose vinegar directly into your sump, and get a big enough ato tank that you don't have to mix up a kalk solution each day.

There are plenty of ways to accomplish lowing your nitrates and stabilizing your alk. I utilize biopellets and kalk through my ato.

 

[maazreef]

I dose the 2 part to keep everything stable. Doser goes ON once every 12 hours for cal and mag. Alkalinity in my tank is averaging 6.8. I am slowly trying to bring it up at minimum 8 is where I want it to be. Kalkwaser has helped maintain my PH stable as well as the mag and calcium. If i give away topping off kalkwaser my alkalinity drops and ph drops. I have tried doing it the other way around just dosing kalk but that is when I notice swings on either end so this is how I find the best balance for my tank at the moment. I have not tried dosing Baking soda or straight alkalinity due to time. I'm guessing this is a talk for another day. I have done bio pellets but not lately. I am scared to use biopellers due to the horrible stories out there. That's why I am going to try carbon dosing.

And no I am not mixing kalk every day. I have a 5 gal top off tank that lasts up to 6 days it seems. And i make all 5 gal at the time of water changes. I was hoping to set my doser up with the mixture of kalk and vinegar everyday though as I have to measure the dosing amou either way.

 

[maidia]

What is your Cal level...better dose kalk alone or 2 parts...How about magnesium? Are you dose mag?

 

[Siebo]

Why not use alk in your 3 part doser instead of kalkwaser? Seems kinda redundant to dose kalk with calcium and mag. Not trying to be mean at all just wondering.

+1 there is a balancing act between alk and cal. If you dose one you should be dosing the other. Maybe not in equal parts but you get the point. If you are adjusting one or the other up you add by itself.
Kalkwasser balances this automatically for the most part.

Also kalkwasser 1.5 times as strong when you supersaturate it with vinegar. 15ml vinegar to 2 tsp of kalk per gallon will saturate it 1.5 time as strong so you need to adjust the dosage or your alk and cal numbers will climb.

There are a ton of articles written by Randy Holmes-Farley:

https://www.google.com/search?q=alk+cal+randy+holmes&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

 

[maazreef]

What is your Cal level...better dose kalk alone or 2 parts...How about magnesium? Are you dose mag?

I was going to try to reach out to you mai since I have read that you dose vinegar. Thank you for replying to the post. My levels are as follow.
Cal-420 stable
Mag-1360 average
Both with red sea test kit

+1 there is a balancing act between alk and cal. If you dose one you should be dosing the other. Maybe not in equal parts but you get the point. If you are adjusting one or the other up you add by itself.
Kalkwasser balances this automatically for the most part.

Also kalkwasser 1.5 times as strong when you supersaturate it with vinegar. 15ml vinegar to 2 tsp of kalk per gallon will saturate it 1.5 time as strong so you need to adjust the dosage or your alk and cal numbers will climb.

There are a ton of articles written by Randy Holmes-Farley:

https://www.google.com/search?q=alk+cal+randy+holmes&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

I have read his articles which have a ton of useful information and data. At the moment all levels (cal+mag) are stable the way I have been dosing (mag is a bit on the high end but not too worried about it) and again these are averages from 12 weeks of collecting data. At one point my alkalinity was down to 6 using red sea test kit and hannah checker. That is when I started dosing kalkwaser week 2 of dosing cal and mag. 10 weeks now and alk is still slowly but steddy going up. I might be ok if mixing both though from what I read. The more potency I can get in my kalkwaser the better it may be and plus I get the carbon dosing that I need to start eliminating phosphates and nitrates.

Thank you

 

[maidia]

I am dosing 3 parts and vodka..I recently change to VSV which I feel better and less ML..When I raise the dose for Cal to 450-480 then I have to raise the ALK too also I dose Mag to balance the Cal and Alk...
Some people said " Cal go up then Alk will down" so need to balance those level..

GHA may cause by Nit high or high nutient..Dose Vinegar may help bring it down..
I don't use Kalk so have no idea...

 

[maazreef]

I am dosing 3 parts and vodka..I recently change to VSV which I feel better and less ML..When I raise the dose for Cal to 450-480 then I have to raise the ALK too also I dose Mag to balance the Cal and Alk...
Some people said " Cal go up then Alk will down" so need to balance those level..

GHA may cause by Nit high or high nutient..Dose Vinegar may help bring it down..
I don't use Kalk so have no idea...

Looks like I may be setting up a baking soda lab at my house today lol
so from what I see you have great results doing a 3 part. I am doing a 2 part plus kalkwaser which have been slowly and steady pushing my alkalinity but still not near where I want it. And alkalinity is just another story for a different day... I have read and seen videos on VSV maybe down the line I will switch over but today after work my main focus will be to start my carbon dosing with Vinegar.

What are your thoughts on Algea Scrubbers Mai? Ever tried this route?

 

[maidia]

Looks like I may be setting up a baking soda lab at my house today lol
so from what I see you have great results doing a 3 part. I am doing a 2 part plus kalkwaser which have been slowly and steady pushing my alkalinity but still not near where I want it. And alkalinity is just another story for a different day... I have read and seen videos on VSV maybe down the line I will switch over but today after work my main focus will be to start my carbon dosing with Vinegar.

What are your thoughts on Algea Scrubbers Mai? Ever tried this route?

I saw Algea Scrubbers at RW, it's look very good..Never done it so can't say anything...
Most of the tank successfully I saw over R2R or RC, they all have either Calcium Reactor or Dosing Pump...

Check this tank..I did talk and learn a little from him...

http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/member-tanks/87236-nuocmams-90-a.html

 

[maazreef]

Check this tank..I did talk and learn a little from him...

http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/member-tanks/87236-nuocmams-90-a.html[/QUOTE]

Wow this tank looks amazing. I'm going to read on it later on today. Thanks mai.

 

[Spartanman22]

Kalk and vinegar won't be an issue. Kalk (calcium hydroxide) and vinegar (dilute acetic acid) mixed directly would result in calcium acetate. This product works to act as a phosphate binder, which may negatively impact your availability of free calcium. However, I wouldn't expect this to negligent unless your phosphate levels were exorbitant.

(I am a chemist but this is not a particular area of expertise so please excuse any mostakes!)

 

[maazreef]

Kalk and vinegar won't be an issue. Kalk (calcium hydroxide) and vinegar (dilute acetic acid) mixed directly would result in calcium acetate. This product works to act as a phosphate binder, which may negatively impact your availability of free calcium. However, I wouldn't expect this to negligent unless your phosphate levels were exorbitant.

(I am a chemist but this is not a particular area of expertise so please excuse any mostakes!)

Thanks for your input. Any bit of information is useful.

 

[EricTheRed]

back to your HA issue...do you regularly blow your rock to get the detritus off of it? Sometimes, even if trates and phates are both low, the hair algae will get what it needs if it is attached to dirty rock. Anytime I start to see a little HA begin I will blow the rock with a turkey baster right before my wc's. I bring this up because you said that your chaeto died off. this leads me to believe that your nutrients, specifically phosphates, are low. In theory, if your chaeto can't survive then ha shouldn't either.

 

[maazreef]

back to your HA issue...do you regularly blow your rock to get the detritus off of it? Sometimes, even if trates and phates are both low, the hair algae will get what it needs if it is attached to dirty rock. Anytime I start to see a little HA begin I will blow the rock with a turkey baster right before my wc's. I bring this up because you said that your chaeto died off. this leads me to believe that your nutrients, specifically phosphates, are low. In theory, if your chaeto can't survive then ha shouldn't either.

No I do not blow off rock. This just began not too long ago. I remove it here and there. It's not everywhere it's only on one of my main rocks. I was expecting a delivery of testing reagents for my phosphates but never arrived this week's. Tracking shows that I should expect it Monday. So once it gets in I will know exactly what my phosphates is. I added more chetoh but this time I purchased a different kind. The one I lost was the one with small petals. I'm hoping this stringy one makes it through. I started dosing vinegar last week and so far I have seen my skimmer working very well and pulling more than usual. I didn't expect it to start working this fast but it is.

 

[EricTheRed]

Chaeto doesn't have petals but caulerpa does. The stringy stuff is actual chaeto. With any form of carbon dosing you are feeding the bacteria which in turn will give you more skimmate. It is generally advisable to skim wet vs. dry when carbon dosing. Also, now that you mention it, since the ha is only growing on 1 rock then that rock could be the culprit. (some rocks leach phosphates)