SPS Experts - Phos reduction??

[sk8elenex92]

I ventured into the SPS world with this new tank and I have failed miserably in my eyes. The Alk,Cal,Mag are all stable, but there is something else going on in my tank. I did screw up with dosing alk to much at a time, and that just made everything go down the drain. But I am back on track with ALK. I am always pointing fingers at my 2 AI sol blues. MadJoe came by and we measured the par, it was low so we bumped them up. I would really love to put up a 48" ATI fixture and just ditch the sols, but $ is the prob blah. I wouldn't even know where to start with bulbs, and the transition to T5. I believe I have enough flow in the tank with the Gyre 150. I use phosguard in a media bag as well as Carbon. I also run Biopellets which have been keeping my nitrates at around 5. Skimmer is always running, and pulling some nasty chunky smelly crap. Not sure if the issue is possibly due to phosguard? If it was what else would you guys use on a sps tank. Been reading and they say GFO may be bad for SPS if used all the time. Dont know what other info I could provide.
So disappointing.. I can keep everything else happy and thriving except my SPS. Maybe just more time and patients is the answer.....

What do you SPS experts with these beautiful tanks use for Phos Media? If any

Do you always run your media? Filter bags or Reactor?

When changing it do you always use the same amount every time?

 

[IHaveCrabs]

I ventured into the SPS world with this new tank and I have failed miserably in my eyes. The Alk,Cal,Mag are all stable, but there is something else going on in my tank. I did screw up with dosing alk to much at a time, and that just made everything go down the drain. But I am back on track with ALK. I am always pointing fingers at my 2 AI sol blues. MadJoe came by and we measured the par, it was low so we bumped them up. I would really love to put up a 48" ATI fixture and just ditch the sols, but $ is the prob blah. I wouldn't even know where to start with bulbs, and the transition to T5. I believe I have enough flow in the tank with the Gyre 150. I use phosguard in a media bag as well as Carbon. I also run Biopellets which have been keeping my nitrates at around 5. Skimmer is always running, and pulling some nasty chunky smelly crap. Not sure if the issue is possibly due to phosguard? If it was what else would you guys use on a sps tank. Been reading and they say GFO may be bad for SPS if used all the time. Dont know what other info I could provide.
So disappointing.. I can keep everything else happy and thriving except my SPS. Maybe just more time and patients is the answer.....

What do you SPS experts with these beautiful tanks use for Phos Media? If any

Do you always run your media? Filter bags or Reactor?

When changing it do you always use the same amount every time?

Disclaimer: Not an expert, but I can certainly share my experiences with my success to date.

Alk swings are really detrimental in the short term. I had a fairly significant swing in a short period of time of 1.5 dkH and it was enough to really piss off my red planet. The red planet browned out and lost PE. After two months of constant stability, it is finally coloring back up and getting PE.

Switching over to my Apex for temp control and dosing was probably the best choice I made. That and testing weekly or more often as needed. Small correctional doses are best.

For filtration, I have a skimmer, filter socks, and run GAC in a bag in the sump. That is it for "merchanical" filtration.

 

[Sawdonkey]

Even with biopellets and Chaeto, I could not keep my PO4 down. I run high-capacity GFO in a reactor and I still run biopellets too. I try to use the same amount each time, but I only change it about once every three months (when PO4 creeps up past .03-.05). My chaeto died once I started using GFO.

 

[IHaveCrabs]

Oh and forgot to mention, when I first tried out T5, I bought an old Current USA 48" 6 bulb system for $75 on here. Works great!

 

[ThePorkchopExpress]

i have the opposite problem - i can't keep NO3/PO4 up...my target paramters are 2-5/.002 but i'm always undetectable even with a pretty large bioload and large feedings...i attribute this to my ATS and chaeto as i run my skimmer pretty dry

because i'm almost always nutrient deficient i have to dose amino acids and feed my sps...it works for me...i don't think my LPS like it too much though

anyways, what changed things around in the nutrient department was the ATS and chaeto and a strong light that's made to grow algae...i use the following:

12 watt PAR38 bulb (2 RED LED @660 nm 5 ROYAL BLUE LED @ 450 nm 2 VIOLET LED @ 410 nm 3 WHITE LED @ 6500K Kelvin) angled in such a way that it hits both my ATS on one side and my chaeto in the fuge - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YYT50KS?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s01
2 of these 640 to 660nm and 400 to 415nm LEDs on the other side of the ATS screen - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IYSQIPG?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s01

 

[rockhead]

i have the opposite problem - i can't keep NO3/PO4 up...my target paramters are 2-5/.002 but i'm always undetectable even with a pretty large bioload and large feedings...i attribute this to my ATS and chaeto as i run my skimmer pretty dry

because i'm almost always nutrient deficient i have to dose amino acids and feed my sps...it works for me...i don't think my LPS like it too much though

anyways, what changed things around in the nutrient department was the ATS and chaeto and a strong light that's made to grow algae...i use the following:

12 watt PAR38 bulb (2 RED LED @660 nm 5 ROYAL BLUE LED @ 450 nm 2 VIOLET LED @ 410 nm 3 WHITE LED @ 6500K Kelvin) angled in such a way that it hits both my ATS on one side and my chaeto in the fuge - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YYT50KS?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s01
2 of these 640 to 660nm and 400 to 415nm LEDs on the other side of the ATS screen - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IYSQIPG?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s01

I agree my parameters are undetectable and I'm also adding to my tank to keep them up, but the tank likes it so I let it ride

 

[maidia]

I took down GFO and Bio Pellets long ago. Since I got these macro algae from local FS, they take care my NO3 and PO4 good. I have to dose Sodium Nitrate and feed lot more to raise the N and P up. My SPS all bounce back and happy.

You mention [MENTION=1217]madjoe[/MENTION], his tank is beautiful and you may learn from him some..


https://flic.kr/p/DTg84u https://www.flickr.com/photos/134182177@N08/

 

[superchargedgp]

Tagging along as well. Maybe one of you can come by and look over my system

 

[ThePorkchopExpress]

IMHO don't chase NO3/PO4 numbers...SPS like it a little dirty as well...only look at NO3/PO4 issues when you start having algae issues...i rarely even measure my NO3/PO4 anymore, i just look at algae in the sump which is where it all migrated to once i added the ATS...is the GHA growing? good, do nothing...is the algae dying? feed a little more...am i starting to get more algae than usual on my glass in the display tank? feed a little less

be way more concerned about the big 3 - alk, lighting, flow...alk i measure everyday, sometimes twice...to me alk stability is the most important factor

PS - i think GFO is bad news all around...it strips too much out of your water...i think it also throws your no3 to po4 ratio off...i had a ton of problems when i used to use GFO

 

[Sawdonkey]

I should note that I have MUCH bigger fish than typically kept by SPS keepers so my nutrient controls need to be stepped up.

 

[madjoe]

I was gonna write alot but plain and simple theres no secrete just jeep chit stabile don't fall for any hype miracle in bottle and your par is too low highest par level was 280 imo thats almost bare minimum to keep sps alive without color . Let corals adjust to new settings then bump up again . I over feed have to many fish list goes on don't worry bout numbers ive seen tank in person its fine

 

[sk8elenex92]

Thank you for the replies everyone.. I do have Chaeto as well, and it grows crazier then it ever has in any of my tanks.. Maybe I need to harvest it more often. I have never grew any GHA in the tank, but for some damn reason I have a little Cyano popping up in just one little spot in the tank.. I do see flow in the area but maybe I need to add another power head to the tank?

Porkchop the recent pics you posted of your SPS are just stunning, so you must be doing something right.. Or you just dont want to share. heh

Mai Joe has been helping me out, but I dont want to keep bothering him.. I fixed his reef keeper network problem. But until he breaks more computers I have no other way of helping him back again.. ha He has been a huge help!

 

[maidia]

Thank you for the replies everyone.. I do have Chaeto as well, and it grows crazier then it ever has in any of my tanks.. Maybe I need to harvest it more often. I have never grew any GHA in the tank, but for some damn reason I have a little Cyano popping up in just one little spot in the tank.. I do see flow in the area but maybe I need to add another power head to the tank?

Porkchop the recent pics you posted of your SPS are just stunning, so you must be doing something right.. Or you just dont want to share. heh

Mai Joe has been helping me out, but I dont want to keep bothering him.. I fixed his reef keeper network problem. But until he breaks more computers I have no other way of helping him back again.. ha He has been a huge help!

I did not test my N and P for 2-3 months. When I saw my sps pale or look unhappy then I put more liquid food and Sodium Nitrate. I dont chase the number. Just my feeling. My CALR take care my CAL, ALK and MAG in balance so I leave the tank alone now.

 

[madjoe]

Thank you for the replies everyone.. I do have Chaeto as well, and it grows crazier then it ever has in any of my tanks.. Maybe I need to harvest it more often. I have never grew any GHA in the tank, but for some damn reason I have a little Cyano popping up in just one little spot in the tank.. I do see flow in the area but maybe I need to add another power head to the tank?

Porkchop the recent pics you posted of your SPS are just stunning, so you must be doing something right.. Or you just dont want to share. heh

Mai Joe has been helping me out, but I dont want to keep bothering him.. I fixed his reef keeper network problem. But until he breaks more computers I have no other way of helping him back again.. ha He has been a huge help!

Theres nothing to repay man thats what we do help each other

 

[bryman]

Mai and I are of the same opinion. Simpler is better. A healthy refugium plus a little carbon in a bag is really all you need in a balanced reef. I have run biopellets, GFO, you name it, and I've only killed off SPS with it. I was starving them for years until I realized no nutrients is a lot worse then some nutrients. Even after stopping vodka, biopellets, etc, I still had a ULNS due to my big refugium and deep sand beds. I started dosing potassium nitrate (spectracide stump remover) until I had barely visible color on the nitrate test, and the difference in my SPS/LPS is freaking amazing. I now dose a low level of potassium nitrate to keep everything happy. I am adding nutrients rather than trying to get rid of them. And it really works!

As others said, unless you have algae problems, phosphate really isn't worth chasing. GFO and biopellets can really strip the water and cause more problems than they solve. Just pull out a few handfuls of cheato every now and then and you have a much safer way to export nutrients. If you don't have nutrients, the cheato automatically adjusts and stops growing as fast. GFO and biopellets require your intervention if your nutrients go too low and won't stop exporting on their own until it's all gone.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[madjoe]

Mai and I are of the same opinion. Simpler is better. A healthy refugium plus a little carbon in a bag is really all you need in a balanced reef. I have run biopellets, GFO, you name it, and I've only killed off SPS with it. I was starving them for years until I realized no nutrients is a lot worse then some nutrients. Even after stopping vodka, biopellets, etc, I still had a ULNS due to my big refugium and deep sand beds. I started dosing potassium nitrate (spectracide stump remover) until I had barely visible color on the nitrate test, and the difference in my SPS/LPS is freaking amazing. I now dose a low level of potassium nitrate to keep everything happy. I am adding nutrients rather than trying to get rid of them. And it really works!

As others said, unless you have algae problems, phosphate really isn't worth chasing. GFO and biopellets can really strip the water and cause more problems than they solve. Just pull out a few handfuls of cheato every now and then and you have a much safer way to export nutrients. If you don't have nutrients, the cheato automatically adjusts and stops growing as fast. GFO and biopellets require your intervention if your nutrients go too low and won't stop exporting on their own until it's all gone.

Just my 2 cents.

Theres nothing simple about mais approach on reefing u cant keep up with how many times he changes his mind about something next week he will have completely different tchniques then this week lol

 

[maidia]

Theres nothing simple about mais approach on reefing u cant keep up with how many times he changes his mind about something next week he will have completely different tchniques then this week lol

Hahahahahha...That true...I am king Infidel....

 

[sk8elenex92]

Haha. You guys crazy. Somethings not right.
Did a waterchange yesterday and tested this morning and it's either my tests or I'm just doing something wrong. Also notice my sand in 2 corners turned rock hard.
Alk 7.5
Cal 375? Always been rock solid and tested at 420

Mag 1600+. Did the test twice. I've never added any mag. This I don't understand

When I get back from Mexico im going to have to make up my mind how I want this thing to run. Continue pellets and kalk or just run 2 part. Gfo. Phosguard, carbon. Agh

Starting from scratch.
FAILED

 

[ThePorkchopExpress]

Porkchop the recent pics you posted of your SPS are just stunning, so you must be doing something right.. Or you just dont want to share. heh

i'm not keeping any secrets, my system is pretty simple as well

i do have a few tips that work for me...i can't say it'll work for everyone, nor do i have scientific facts to back these up:

- figure out if you're aiming for color or growth...if color, keep alk around nsw at ~7-8dkh...if growth, go 11-12dkh...so if you want both, aim for ~9kh-10dkh...i keep mine 8-9 because i want color
- if you keep alk above 9dkh, you have to have NO3/PO4 present or your sps will starve and lead to burnt tips/alk burn and pale coloration because the coral simply can't keep up with the accelerated skeletal growth
- amino acids do work but don't overdose it...it can lead to burnt tips, same as above as you are accelerating sps growth and the coral can't keep up
- potassium dosing does work and it does bring out your reds and pinks BUT you can overdose and when you do, your tank will go downhill real fast...there are also no good K test kits out there and the titration kits that are out there take upwards of 20-30 minutes to do...each time...it's better to just do water changes to replenish that K
- do small water changes frequently over large water changes infrequently
- fragging acros pushes them to grow faster than they would if you left them alone
- flow is very important, probably just as important, if not more, than lighting...aim for high flow that is random, not laminar...watch polyps flow in different directions, not just one direction

EDIT: also, UV seems to be doing something good in my tank as well...every since i've been bumping up UV my colors have really gotten deeper in all spectrum...i'm not sure exactly what this spectrum effects though...be forewarned, UV is also known to fry your corals...bring that one up very slowly

 

[sk8elenex92]

Thanks for all that info. I will have to rethink the way I want to run the tank when I'm back.