Vitamin C Dosing
- Thread starter BlueToothTusk
- Start date
400gallonnano
Member
Vitamin c dosing sounds like the snake oil for reef tanks
jcarlilesiu
Active member
BlueToothTusk
Banned
Very much so, in fact other than PufferPunk's claim I can not find one article that mentions VitC being used to cure any ailments.
In fact the only mention I can find of vitamin C being truly helpful in a marine environment is from vendor/manufacturer web sites.
Example:
http://brightwellaquatics.com/products/vitamarinct.php
Here are a few good articles about proper treatment of to get you all started. In includes the major three methods of treatment as well as some homeopathic remedies which have been shown to kill Cryptocaryon irritans in various stages, however it is still only Copper, Hypo, Quinine Sulfate (a cure researched and proven since the publishing of these article) that are effective in irradiating the parasite in all stages. Formalin was also widely used for some time, and does work, but its negative effects on the fish often outweigh the positive aspects of the treatment.
Still, not one mention of Vitamin C from any reputable source.
Advanced Aquarist:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/11/mini
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/12/mini
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2004/1/mini
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2004/2/mini
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2004/3/mini
Reefkeeping Magazine:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.php
Wet Web Media:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm
Article stating that Vitamin C is unproven and therefore can not be recommended as effective treatment for marine diseases (not necessarily reliable resources, just trying to find SOMETHING that mentions Cryptocaryon irritans and VitaminC):
http://icecapinc.com/informationcenter/articles/marine-velvetamyloodinium-ocellatum-a-discussion-of-this-disease-and-its-available-treatment-options
Mentions Vitamin C in CONJUNCTION with Hypo (proven treatment) but not Vitamin C alone:
http://www.suite101.com/content/marine-ich-in-the-tropical-saltwater-aquarium-a66667
I also have some paper articles somewhere around the house that I would like to scan and provide with you if I can locate them. I am excited to see a forthcoming response with some documentation (not a forum post) alluding to the effectiveness of Vitamin C (alone) in treating Cryptocaryon irritans or any other disease for that matter.
Also, in response to the request for me to conduct a controlled experiment on the collagen growth claim from Vitamin C. I would love to conduct this experiment as I do have experience doing Plant/Animal cuttings and analyzing them under a microscope but I currently only have one tank established. It would be impossible to do a controlled experiment without two tanks running nearly identical equipment and parameters.
BlueToothTusk
Banned
In California it probably causes cancer.
Pufferpunk
New member
That's because I came up with using it for these purposes. There has been extensive research on VC stating it does all I stated & more, by Dr Albert Thiel. Someone found this for me about 2 months after I started dosing:
http://www.athiel.com/lib/vitC496.html#general
http://www.athiel.com/lib/vitC496.html#general
BlueToothTusk
Banned
Very interesting article, but again, just a vendor trying to sell their product with no sources. Do you have anything which sources a scientific journal or anything which is not a forum post or a vendor article/advertisement?
The article also makes no mention whatsoever of using Vitamin C to cure/treat Crypt which you claim to have "cured" using this homeopathic medication. You can clearly also see in your provided article that the vitamin C does not kill disease or parasites but only helps to increase the immune system of a fish (refer back to my tick camping argument).
Furthermore there is absolutely no mention of cell wall/collagen increases in either fish or corals in that article. Where is all that information coming from?
Pufferpunk
New member
It has not been written. I would find it a wonderful thing if you wrote one! 
BlueToothTusk
Banned
If someone would like to provide me with two identical aquarium set ups along with all the supplies necessary to perform the experiment I just might.It has not been written. I would find it a wonderful thing if you wrote one!
Unfortunately with a lack of credentialing in the fields of chemistry and biology a scholarly journal article written by me would carry little weight in this argument.
FishBeard
New member
I'll tell you all what, I've been dosing for the past month at a recommendation of a local that swears by it for the health of their zoas/palys. I honestly haven't seen any noticeable growth or new polyps that make it seem worth continuing to dose, in 2 days or so when I run out I will be stopping for about a month or so to see any differences in my tank without VC. I'll check back in with my shadetree opinion on it at that time.
BlueToothTusk
Banned
Do you by chance have access to a microscope (even a cheap one) or a nicer magnifying glass?
400gallonnano
Member
So if it hasn't been written or proven where did you get all the info you have been claiming or is it what you would like to believe it does?
Pufferpunk
New member
What are you dosing with, how much, how often, in what size tank?
FishBeard
New member
I'm using OTC vitamin c, just the generic stuff with rose hips, two 500mg tablets a day, what I was recommended to use and the same stuff I know several others in my area are also dosing with claimed positive results. This is going into a 60g tank with 4g skimmer sump, no fuge. I also dose essential elements a couple times a week which I will continue without the VC dosing. One case in particular, I have 2 very healthy polyps of AOG and have seen absolutely no sign of growth and not even the slightest sign of any baby bumps forming in the past 2 months, the last month while dosing VC. I use this one as a reference since it's so easy for me to inspect this particular frag.
BlueToothTusk
Banned
I currently only dose 2 part. I have no algae, nutrient, SPS color issues to speak of. Carbon dosing treats the effect not the cause of a problem. Treating the cause is a far more effective remedy for the issues for which hobbyists generally jump to carbon dosing.
Pufferpunk
New member
IDK who recommended this to you but you are not supposed to use VC pills. they are NOT buffered & have a pH of 4! They also contain fillers you don't want in your tank. Also, the amount your dosing is very minimal to what I suggest. Dosing pure sodium ascorbate at 10ppm, should show some positive results in your coral color/growth.
Dosing Vitamin C Chart
Use this product:
http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?c=1&pid=-7152293197697039798
$5 0ff coupon code: LUL789 (always good for first purchase).
Keep refrigerated.
To figure out how much to use, decide if you want to simply improve coral growth, spread, and color. If so, then you should dose around 5 ppm twice daily. If you are having problems with coral or fish health, dose up to around 30 ppm twice daily.
Calculate the total net number of gallons in your tank (minus rocks, sand, etc). Enter that number here ______.
You will now need to do a little math. The amounts below are for 100 gallons of water so if you have 50 net gallons, cut the amounts shown below in half etc. No need to be exact--I usually round to the nearest 1/4 tsp.
Dosing amounts using Iherb product:
1/4 tsp=1112 mg.
For every 100 gallons:
5 ppm ----- 1892 mg VC
10 ppm ---- 3785 mg VC
15 ppm ---- 5677 mg VC
20 ppm ---- 7570 mg VC
25 ppm ---- 9462 mg VC
30 ppm ---- 11355 mg VC
After you have figured out how much you want to dose at each dosing, enter that number here _____. This is your dose to be used twice a day. Try for at least one dose being done during lights out, as VC absorbs better in the dark.
Notes:
*Be sure your pH and alk are within normal reef limits before starting. Adjust if needed. Monitor weekly.
*Shoot for a ppm of around 5 if only dosing for improved coral growth, coloration, and spread. Shoot for higher amounts up to 30 ppm if you are having melting zoas or closed zoas and look for the causes of your problems as you dose. Check for high nitrates, pests, zoa pox, predators, and unstable water conditions.
*Dose low amounts and increase the amount slowly over the course of a few days to a couple weeks.
*Do NOT dose at high levels (>10ppm), if you don’t have a skimmer! Especially on a nano tank.
* If you notice an algae bloom or increased skim on your glass then cut back by half until it disappears.
* Watch your skimmer, it will start to skim more.
* Dose the amount twice a day in a fast moving area of your sump or overflow. You may dilute the vitamin c in ro/di water for a minute then pour into my overflow. If adding to sump, try and add the vitamin c after filtration such as skimmers and reactors.
* If you have a question, ask here. I check VC threads daily.
* The instructions in this guide and throughout this thread are based on using pure Sodium Ascorbate, not vitamin c pills and other non-buffered forms of vitamin c.
Be sure to take some "before" pics!
BlueToothTusk
Banned
Pufferpunk
New member
You are welcome to come look at my tank:
BlueToothTusk
Banned
Do you have any recent photos as just raw photographs? You keep posting these outdated processed professional photographs of your tank and corals but have since mentioned many issues with your tank.
SaylorsReef
New member
I've seen the tank many times. It's beautiful! Stop over and see it sometime.